Discussion:
Differences between Spiritual Believers in Jesus and the Carnal 'Believers'.
(too old to reply)
Robert
2024-11-18 19:30:09 UTC
Permalink
IOW How to walk in Freedom, and not walk in Sin. The battle has been won, and
those who are Believers in Jesus Christ are a new Creature, with a divine
nature, plus empowered by the Holy Spirit to walk the talk. Those who fail
choose to do so by their free will.

Gal 5:16 (KJV) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil
the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 (KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit
against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye
cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 (KJV) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 (KJV) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 (KJV) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath,
strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 (KJV) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of
the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they
which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 (KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 (KJV) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 (KJV) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the
affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25 (KJV) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26 (KJV) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another,
envying one another.

Snippets of Notes by Wuest

We must be careful to notice that Paul puts upon the believer, the
responsibility of refusing to obey the behests of the evil nature by
conducting himself in the power of the Holy Spirit, and under His control.
The will of the person has been liberated from the enslavement to sin which
it experienced before salvation, and is free now to choose the right and
refuse the wrong. The Holy Spirit has been given him as the Agent to
counteract the evil nature, but He does that for the saint when that saint
puts himself under His control, and by an act of his free will, says a
point-blank positive NO to sin. In other words, there must be a cooperation
of the saint with the Holy Spirit in His work of sanctifying the life. The
Holy Spirit is not a perpetual motion machine which operates automatically in
the life of the believer. He is a divine Person waiting to be depended upon
for His ministry, and expecting the saint to cooperate with Him in it. Thus
the choice lies with the believer as to whether he is going to yield to the
Holy Spirit or obey the evil nature. The Spirit is always there to give him
victory over that nature as the saint says a point-blank NO to sin and at the
same time trusts the Spirit to give him victory over it.

Translation: But I say, Through the instrumentality of the Spirit habitually
order your manner of life, and you will in no wise execute the passionate
desire of the flesh.

The word against is fromKata, the root meaning of which is down, and which
thus has the idea of suppression. The words "are contrary" are fromantikeimai
which means "to lie opposite to," hence "to oppose, withstand." The words
"the one to the other" are from allelos, a reciprocal pronoun in Greek. Thus,
there is a reciprocity on the part of the flesh and Spirit. Each reciprocates
the antagonism which the one holds for the other. The translation is as
follows: For the flesh constantly has a strong desire to suppress the Spirit,
and the Spirit constantly has a strong desire to suppress the flesh. And
these are entrenched in an attitude of mutual opposition to one another, so
that you may not do the things that you desire to do.

When the flesh presses hard upon the believer with its evil behests, the Holy
Spirit is there to oppose the flesh and give the believer victory over it, in
order that the believer will not obey the flesh, and thus sin. When the Holy
Spirit places a course of conduct upon the heart of the believer, the flesh
opposes the Spirit in an effort to prevent the believer from obeying the
Spirit. The purpose of each is to prevent the believer from doing what the
other moves him to do. The choice lies with the saint. He must develop the
habit of keeping his eyes fixed on the Lord Jesus and his trust in the Holy
Spirit. The more he says NO to sin, the easier it is to say NO, until it
becomes a habit. The more he says YES to the Lord Jesus, the easier it is to
say YES, until that becomes a habit.

The will of the believer is absolutely free from the compelling power of the
evil nature. If he obeys the latter, it is because he chooses to do so. But
the Holy Spirit has given the believer a new nature, the divine nature. And
the sweet influences of that nature are constantly permeating the activities
of the believer’s will as the believer keeps himself yielded to the
Spirit. In that way, the Spirit keeps on suppressing the activities of the
evil nature and any control which it might attempt to exert over the saint.

“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy
to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the
Son of man.†(Luk 21:36, KJV)
--
All messages with alt.atheism in the headers are now filterd out beginning
10/19.So posting to aa will in effect filter all your messages from being
read by me. Thus you are KF'ing yourself. VBG
Christ Rose
2024-11-19 12:21:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
IOW How to walk in Freedom, and not walk in Sin. The battle has been won, and
those who are Believers in Jesus Christ are a new Creature, with a divine
nature, plus empowered by the Holy Spirit to walk the talk. Those who fail
choose to do so by their free will.
Choose to do what? Yield to their old, fleshly nature rather than the
Holy Spirit?

• According to you, that old nature no longer even exists for the
believer. You said it is "gone"¹, contrary to what 1 John 1:8-9, Romans
7, and every book in the New Testament plainly states
(https://christrose.news/sin-nature), and contrary to what you now
acknowledge here and below.

• You spent a year playing Devil's advocate for the Gnostic lies of an
heretic who claims believers don't even have a sin nature, cannot even
sin a single time, and who daily persecutes and seeks to deny as even
being Christians, anyone who admits to even having a sin nature. You did
this AGAINST those who noted these very things you are now proclaiming
as righteous. Now here you are, effectively admitting the old nature
exists and that the believer has to choose to yield to the Spirit rather
than that old fleshly nature.
Post by Robert
Gal 5:16 (KJV) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil
the lust of the flesh.
What flesh? According to you, while you were playing devil's advocate
for Gnostic lies, that nature is "gone"¹. Something which is "gone" does
not even exist to tempt the believer to sin in the first place.

You confirm what I've been saying all along. If Robert says it, it's the
gospel truth. If someone other Robert says the very same thing, Robert
attacks the idea, and tries to portray it as an evil lie. Thus, it's not
the truth you appear to be concerned about, but pretending like you're
the only one who knows it.
Post by Robert
Gal 5:17 (KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit
against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye
cannot do the things that ye would.
Idem.
Post by Robert
Gal 5:18 (KJV) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 (KJV) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idem. How could the Galatians or any believer yield to or manifest the
fruits of the "flesh", if the flesh is "gone" for the believer?
Post by Robert
Gal 5:20 (KJV) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath,
strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 (KJV) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of> the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past,
that they
Post by Robert
which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 (KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 (KJV) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 (KJV) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the
affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 (KJV) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 (KJV) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another,
envying one another.
Note that envy is a fruit of the flesh. This is about all you manfest in
here. If someone else says the very same Bible truths or gives accurate
presentation of the gospel itself (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), you literally
devote your life trying to poison people's minds against them. Then you
turn around and post the same content you just said to be in error, as
if you're the only one who knows the truth. How are you not motivated by
the bitter envy of demonic wisdom and selfish ambition (James 3:14-15)?
Your pattern is just like the Jews who were filled with envy when the
disciples proclaimed the gospel (https://christrose.news/demonic-wisdom).
Post by Robert
Snippets of Notes by Wuest
We must be careful to notice that Paul puts upon the believer, the
responsibility of refusing to obey the behests of the evil nature
"evil nature"? What "evil nature"? According to Robert, when I was
mentioning these things, that old nature is "gone"¹. Are you now
admitting to be true what I was saying all along, while you tried to
poison people's minds against what I was saying, you envy-boy hypocrite?
Post by Robert
by
conducting himself in the power of the Holy Spirit, and under His control.
The will of the person has been liberated from the enslavement to sin which
it experienced before salvation, and is free now to choose the right and
refuse the wrong.
--Exactly what I said all along. The believer is free from the
obligation to sin, not free from the existence of the old nature. That
doesn't happen till glory (Romans 8).
Post by Robert
The Holy Spirit has been given him as the Agent to
counteract the evil nature, but He does that for the saint when that saint
puts himself under His control, and by an act of his free will, says a
point-blank positive NO to sin.
What "sin"? You mean that old sin nature you denied even existed
(claiming it was "gone"), when I was pointing this out to a Gnostic
heretic (1 John 1:8-9)?
Post by Robert
In other words, there must be a cooperation
of the saint with the Holy Spirit in His work of sanctifying the life. The
Holy Spirit is not a perpetual motion machine which operates automatically in
the life of the believer. He is a divine Person waiting to be depended upon
for His ministry, and expecting the saint to cooperate with Him in it. Thus
the choice lies with the believer as to whether he is going to yield to the
Holy Spirit or obey the evil nature.
What "evil nature"? According to Robert, that evil nature is "gone"¹.
You spent a year advocating for Gnostic heresy, AGAINST the idea that a
believer even has an evil nature, when I was pointing out these truths.
Now, when they come out of your mouth, they suddenly become the gospel
truth. This is how I know you're not motivated by a desire to promote
the truth, but out of envy against others who proclaim it. You deny
these truths when other people state them, and try to poison people's
minds against them. Then you come back and say the same things yourself,
and pretend like you're the only one who knows or believes them.
Post by Robert
The Spirit is always there to give him
victory over that nature
What "nature"? You mean the sin nature you said was "gone"¹, as you
tried to undermine me in favor of Gnostic heresy, while I was saying
these very things?
Post by Robert
as the saint says a point-blank NO to sin and at the
same time trusts the Spirit to give him victory over it.
Translation: But I say, Through the instrumentality of the Spirit habitually
order your manner of life, and you will in no wise execute the passionate
desire of the flesh.
The "flesh" which Robert said was "gone"¹ (i.e. no longer exists within
the believer). Stupid, lying, envy-boy hypocrite. You think you can now
come back and pretend like this is what you believed all along, while
you tried to demonize me for saying the very same things?
Post by Robert
The word against is fromKata, the root meaning of which is down, and which
thus has the idea of suppression. The words "are contrary" are fromantikeimai
which means "to lie opposite to," hence "to oppose, withstand."
Yes, you understand that word oppose. That's what you spent a year doing
(opposing these truths), when I was the one stating them.
Post by Robert
The words
"the one to the other" are from allelos, a reciprocal pronoun in Greek. Thus,
there is a reciprocity on the part of the flesh and Spirit.
Idem. What "flesh"? You said the flesh was "gone", didn't you?¹
Post by Robert
Each reciprocates
the antagonism which the one holds for the other. The translation is as
follows: For the flesh constantly has a strong desire to suppress the Spirit,
and the Spirit constantly has a strong desire to suppress the flesh. And
these are entrenched in an attitude of mutual opposition to one another, so
that you may not do the things that you desire to do.
When the flesh presses hard upon the believer with its evil behests,
Idem.
Post by Robert
the Holy
Spirit is there to oppose the flesh
Idem.
Post by Robert
and give the believer victory over it, in
order that the believer will not obey the flesh, and thus sin.
Idem.
Post by Robert
When the Holy
Spirit places a course of conduct upon the heart of the believer, the flesh
Idem.
Post by Robert
opposes the Spirit in an effort to prevent the believer from obeying the
Spirit. The purpose of each is to prevent the believer from doing what the
other moves him to do. The choice lies with the saint. He must develop the
habit of keeping his eyes fixed on the Lord Jesus and his trust in the Holy
Spirit. The more he says NO to sin, the easier it is to say NO, until it
becomes a habit. The more he says YES to the Lord Jesus, the easier it is to
say YES, until that becomes a habit.
The will of the believer is absolutely free from the compelling power of the
evil nature.
Idem. Robert now admits what he attacked while I was saying it, which is
that the believer has both an old and new nature. He's free from the
obligation to sin, but he is not free from the existence of the old
nature till glory (Romans 8). This is why the believer must yield to the
Spirit rather than that old fleshly nature. He must "reckon" the flesh
to be dead in Christ. That which does not exist to tempt the believer
does not have to be reckoned as dead in Christ by faith.

This hypocrite troll spent a year trying to undermine and poison
people's minds against these very truths when I was the one stating
them. Now he comes back and says the very same thing, pretending like
it's what he believed all along. This is how I know you are not here to
promote truth, but to promote yourself as being the only one who knows
the truth. You devote your life trying to undermine and poison people's
minds against others when they say the same thing.
Post by Robert
If he obeys the latter, it is because he chooses to do so. But
the Holy Spirit has given the believer a new nature, the divine nature. And
the sweet influences of that nature are constantly permeating the activities
of the believer’s will as the believer keeps himself yielded to the
Spirit. In that way, the Spirit keeps on suppressing the activities of the
evil nature and any control which it might attempt to exert over the saint.
Idem. Hypocrite troll!
Post by Robert
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy
to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the
Son of man.†(Luk 21:36, KJV)
Now go ahead and explain what you think that means.



_______________

1.
========================================
Fri, 31 May 2024 12:01:20 -0700,
<***@news.eternal-september.org>
Robert <***@no.way> wrote:
========================================
The old sin-nature is GONE -- For the believer
========================================
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death
penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved.'" (Romans 10:13, ESV)

https://christrose.news/salvation
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