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Tue, 10 Dec 2024 00:02:49 -0800
<vj8sj9$sgb8$***@dont-email.me>
Robert <***@no.way> wrote:
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Let's begin by trying to make sense of the subject. Robert has,
"What [sic] 'Christians' [sic] followers of Jesus the Christ that
[sic]are to be
Shunned?"[sic]
Here's what I think he meant:
"Which 'Christian' followers of Jesus the Christ should be shunned"?
The answer, based on the text, is those who are a "so called" brother,
but who are immoral, covetous, idolators, etc.
That's not the only standard of "secondary separation", however.
“But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who
bears the name of
brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an
idolater, reviler,
drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one” (1
Corinthians 5:11, ESV).
“I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause
divisions and create
obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught;
avoid them”
(Romans 16:17, ESV).
“If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not
receive him into
your house or give him any greeting” (2 John 1:10, ESV).
“As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and
then twice, have
nothing more to do with him” (Titus 3:10, ESV).
“Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid
such people” (2
Timothy 3:5, ESV).
Post by RobertYes, not even to share a meal with? Does this apply to the non-believer?
Nope.
Why does this only apply to those who call themselves ‘brothers in
Christ’?
According to the text in question, it's because otherwise you would have
to go out of the world. However, this is not to be confused with the
idea that we should not separate ourselves from the deeds and lifestyle
of the world:
Paul’s instructions on separation balance two key principles:
maintaining personal holiness while engaging with the world to fulfill
the mission of the gospel. These instructions, though they may appear
contradictory, address different aspects of a believer's relationship
with the world and with professing believers. Here’s how these seemingly
opposing ideas can be resolved:
1. Separation from the World’s Practices, Not Its People
In 1 Corinthians 5:9-10, Paul clarifies that his command not to
associate with the immoral does not apply to unbelievers in general:
“I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral
people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the
greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out
of the world” (1 Corinthians 5:9-10, ESV).
- Explanation: Christians live in the world and are called to interact
with unbelievers for the sake of spreading the gospel (Matthew
28:19-20). Avoiding all contact with sinners would make it impossible to
fulfill the Great Commission.
2. Unequal Yoking and Personal Holiness
In 2 Corinthians 6:14, 17, Paul says:
“Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has
righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with
darkness?… Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them,
says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you” (2
Corinthians 6:14, 17, ESV).
- Explanation: This passage warns against entering into close
partnerships (e.g., marriage, business alliances, or other binding
associations) that compromise one’s walk with Christ. Believers should
not engage in relationships where they are bound to conform to the
sinful practices of unbelievers.
3. Engaging Without Compromising
Paul exemplifies the balance between these principles in 1 Corinthians 9:22:
“I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save
some” (1 Corinthians 9:22, ESV).
- Explanation: Paul engaged with unbelievers to reach them for Christ,
adapting to cultural contexts where possible, but never compromising his
faith or moral integrity.
4. Key Distinction
- Interact with the Lost: Engage with unbelievers to share the gospel.
Jesus Himself ate with tax collectors and sinners (Matthew 9:10-13).
- Avoid Compromise: Do not enter into binding relationships or adopt
behaviors that compromise Christian integrity or witness.
Conclusion
Paul’s teachings do not contradict each other but address different
levels of separation. Believers are to:
1. Engage with the world for the sake of evangelism (1 Corinthians 5:10).
2. Shake off the dust and move on when they reject the gospel (see above).
3. Separate from partnerships or practices that compromise holiness (2
Corinthians 6:14).
4. Withdraw from professing Christians who persist in sin or false
teaching (1 Corinthians 5:11; Titus 3:10).
This balance allows believers to be salt and light (Matthew 5:13-16)
while maintaining their distinctiveness in Christ.
Post by RobertToday, as it was in the days of Jesus while he was on earth, it is the high
and mighty religious people, who complain about believers befriending the
atheists and non-believers, so much so that they even called Jesus a ‘wine
bibber’ because he was down to befriend those types of people, even hanging
out and chatting with them.
Robert:
"All messages with alt.atheism in the headers are now filterd out
beginning
10/19.So posting to aa will in effect filter all your messages
from being
read by me. Thus you are KF'ing yourself. VBG"
This is actually the right stance, considering the fact that we're
talking about people who have already heard and rejected the gospel, and
who have told you they don't want to hear it. You pointed this out
yourself on a number of occasions. In the case of those who have already
heard and rejected the gospel, we are told:
“Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls
before pigs, lest they
trample them underfoot and turn to attack you” (Matthew 7:6, ESV).
“And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake
off the dust from
your feet when you leave that house or town” (Matthew 10:14, ESV).
“And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to
you, when you leave,
shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against
them” (Mark 6:11,
ESV).
“And if they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake
off the dust from
your feet as a testimony against them” (Luke 9:5, ESV).
“Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off
against you.
Nevertheless, know this, that the kingdom of God has come near”
(Luke 10:11,
ESV).
“But they shook off the dust from their feet against them and went
to Iconium”
(Acts 13:51, ESV).
“And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments
and said to
them, ‘Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now
on I will go to
the Gentiles’” (Acts 18:6, ESV).
Post by Robert1Co 5:9-13 (AMPC)
9 I wrote you in my [previous] letter not to associate [closely and
habitually] with unchaste (impure) people--
10 Not [meaning of course that you must] altogether shun the immoral people
of this world, or the greedy graspers and cheats and thieves or idolaters,
since otherwise you would need to get out of the worldand [sic] human society
altogether!
Correct. But this is not to be confused with the idea that we should
keep on trying to evangelize people who have openly rejected the gospel
after hearing it, and who are devoted to trying to destroy and undermine
our faith in God. Cross-posting in two diametrically opposed groups
promotes contention and hands the mic to those who wish to destroy and
undermine our faith. It is the very definition of trolling.
Post by Robert11 But now I write to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of
[Christian] brother if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is
an idolater [whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of
God], or is a person with a foul tongue [railing, abusing, reviling,
slandering], or is a drunkard or a swindleror a robber. [No] you must not so
much as eat with such a person.
12 What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is
it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary
judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?
13 God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked
one from among you [expel him from your church].
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to
escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son
of man.” (Luk 21:36, KJV)
Idem.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God
raised Him from the dead?
That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death
penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.
On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved.'" (Romans 10:13, ESV)
https://christrose.news/salvation