Discussion:
Be informed and understand! Is Islam REALLY a religion of peace?
(too old to reply)
Jude Alexander
2010-09-20 13:10:09 UTC
Permalink
http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/3-things-you-probably-dont-know-about-islam.html?comment_id=31072#comment_31072
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." ---Blaise Pascal
arah
2010-09-20 15:27:21 UTC
Permalink
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful


Quran, Surah 5:Ayat: 82-83 "And thou wilt find the nearest of them in
affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are
Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks,
and because they are not proud. When they listen to that which hath
been revealed unto the messenger, thou seest their eyes overflow with
tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord,
we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses"


A Christian Minister's Conversion to Islam






How the Bible Led Me to Islam:





http://www.usislam.org/converts/converts.htm










http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/3-things-you-probably-dont-know-...
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." ---Blaise Pascal
Jude Alexander
2010-09-20 15:31:42 UTC
Permalink
Are ye daft or just stoooopid? Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Did you
even watch the video. ALL the verses of peace are at the beginning of the
Quran when Mohammed was a bit more peaceful (if that can be a correct
description). ALL violent verses take precedence as outlined in the Quran!

There is NO peaceful religions called Islam! Only uninformed, brain dead,
mentally challenged, wisdom challenged, self-medicating lost souls could
believe that after reading the Quran, Hadiths and Sura. Yoo Hoo Which one
are you?
http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/3-things-you-probably-dont-know-...
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." ---Blaise Pascal
arah
2010-09-20 16:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Without Islam European will be still in Dark Ages

WHEN THE MOOR RULED EUROPE





It is very unfortunate to see the latest assaults on the personality
of the most respected man of the mankind.These assaults are a proof
that how our beloved Prophet has been understood by those so called
intellectuals who are claiming that they are free to express any
anything about anybody through various mediums without actually
acquiring the knowledge of what they are expressing.Their expression
might be totally different,If they might have ever attempted to know
about Greatest Personality-THE PROPHET MOHAMMED (PBUH).


Here are some quotes about Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) as described by
some Non-Muslim Intellectuals of their time.

Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History'
1840

"The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round
this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."
"A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to
kindle the world, the world’s Maker had ordered so."

A. S. Tritton in 'Islam,' 1951

The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand
and the Qur'an in the other is quite false.

De Lacy O'Leary in 'Islam at the Crossroads,' London, 1923.

History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims
sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword
upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths
that historians have ever repeated.
Gibbon in 'The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' 1823
The good sense of Muhammad despised the pomp of royalty. The Apostle
of God submitted to the menial offices of the family; he kindled the
fire; swept the floor; milked the ewes; and mended with his own hands
his shoes and garments. Disdaining the penance and merit of a hermit,
he observed without effort of vanity the abstemious diet of an Arab.

Edward Gibbon and Simon Oakley in ‘History of the Saracen Empire,’
London, 1870
"The greatest success of Mohammad’s life was effected by sheer moral
force."
“It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that
deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he
engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved after the revolutions of
twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes
of the Koran....The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation
of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the
senses and imagination of man. ‘I believe in One God and Mahomet the
Apostle of God’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The
intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible
idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of
human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of
his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.”

Reverend Bosworth Smith in 'Muhammad and Muhammadanism,' London,
1874.
"Head of the State as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in
one; but he was Pope without the Pope's pretensions, and Caesar
without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a
bodyguard, without a police force, without a fixed revenue. If ever a
man ruled by a right divine, it was Muhammad, for he had all the
powers without their supports. He cared not for the dressings of
power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his
public life."
"In Mohammadanism every thing is different here. Instead of the
shadowy and the mysterious, we have history....We know of the external
history of Muhammad....while for his internal history after his
mission had been proclaimed, we have a book absolutely unique in its
origin, in its preservation....on the Substantial authority of which
no one has ever been able to cast a serious doubt."

Edward Montet, 'La Propagande Chretienne et ses Adversaries
Musulmans,' Paris 1890. (Also in T.W. Arnold in 'The Preaching of
Islam,' London 1913.)
"Islam is a religion that is essentially rationalistic in the widest
sense of this term considered etymologically and historically....the
teachings of the Prophet, the Qur'an has invariably kept its place as
the fundamental starting point, and the dogma of unity of God has
always been proclaimed therein with a grandeur a majesty, an
invariable purity and with a note of sure conviction, which it is hard
to find surpassed outside the pale of Islam....A creed so precise, so
stripped of all theological complexities and consequently so
accessible to the ordinary understanding might be expected to possess
and does indeed possess a marvelous power of winning its way into the
consciences of men."

Alphonse de LaMartaine in 'Historie de la Turquie,' Paris, 1854.
"Never has a man set for himself, voluntarily or involuntarily, a more
sublime aim, since this aim was superhuman; to subvert superstitions
which had been imposed between man and his Creator, to render God unto
man and man unto God; to restore the rational and sacred idea of
divinity amidst the chaos of the material and disfigured gods of
idolatry, then existing. Never has a man undertaken a work so far
beyond human power with so feeble means, for he (Muhammad) had in the
conception as well as in the execution of such a great design, no
other instrument than himself and no other aid except a handful of men
living in a corner of the desert. Finally, never has a man
accomplished such a huge and lasting revolution in the world, because
in less than two centuries after its appearance, Islam, in faith and
in arms, reigned over the whole of Arabia, and conquered, in God's
name, Persia Khorasan, Transoxania, Western India, Syria, Egypt,
Abyssinia, all the known continent of Northern Africa, numerous
islands of the Mediterranean Sea, Spain, and part of Gaul.
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results
are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any
great man in history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms,
laws, and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than
material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man
moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples, dynasties, but
millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more
than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas,
the beliefs and the souls.
"On the basis of a Book, every letter which has become law, he created
a spiritual nationality which blend together peoples of every tongue
and race. He has left the indelible characteristic of this Muslim
nationality the hatred of false gods and the passion for the One and
Immaterial God. This avenging patriotism against the profanation of
Heaven formed the virtue of the followers of Muhammad; the conquest of
one-third the earth to the dogma was his miracle; or rather it was not
the miracle of man but that of reason.
"The idea of the unity of God, proclaimed amidst the exhaustion of the
fabulous theogonies, was in itself such a miracle that upon it's
utterance from his lips it destroyed all the ancient temples of idols
and set on fire one-third of the world. His life, his meditations, his
heroic revelings against the superstitions of his country, and his
boldness in defying the furies of idolatry, his firmness in enduring
them for fifteen years in Mecca, his acceptance of the role of public
scorn and almost of being a victim of his fellow countrymen... This
dogma was twofold the unity of God and the immateriality of God: the
former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the
one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea
with words.
"Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas,
Restorer of Rational beliefs.... The founder of twenty terrestrial
empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all
standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask,
is there any man greater than he?"

Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in 'Young India,'1924.
I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an
undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became
more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place
for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid
simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous
regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers,
his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in
his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before
them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume
(of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to
read of that great life.

Sir George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.
"If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe
within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."
“I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation
because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which
appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing
phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have
studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an
anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity."
"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of
the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way
that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have
prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to
the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the
Europe of today.”

Michael Hart in 'The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons In
History,' New York, 1978.
My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential
persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but
he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both
the secular and religious level. ...It is probable that the relative
influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined
influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. ...It is this
unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I
feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single
figure in human history.

Dr. William Draper in 'History of Intellectual Development of Europe'
Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born in Mecca,
in Arabia, the man who, of all men, has exercised the greatest
influence upon the human race... To be the religious head of many
empires, to guide the daily life of one-third of the human race, may
perhaps justify the title of a Messenger of God.

Arthur Glyn Leonard in 'Islam, Her Moral and Spiritual Values'
It was the genius of Muhammad, the spirit that he breathed into the
Arabs through the soul of Islam that exalted them. That raised them
out of the lethargy and low level of tribal stagnation up to the high
watermark of national unity and empire. It was in the sublimity of
Muhammad's deism, the simplicity, the sobriety and purity it
inculcated the fidelity of its founder to his own tenets, that acted
on their moral and intellectual fiber with all the magnetism of true
inspiration.

Philip K. Hitti in 'History of the Arabs'
Within a brief span of mortal life, Muhammad called forth of
unpromising material, a nation, never welded before; in a country that
was hitherto but a geographical __expression he established a religion
which in vast areas suppressed Christianity and Judaism, and laid the
basis of an empire that was soon to embrace within its far flung
boundaries the fairest provinces the then civilized world.

Rodwell in the Preface to his translation of the Holy Qur'an
Mohammad's career is a wonderful instance of the force and life that
resides in him who possesses an intense faith in God and in the unseen
world. He will always be regarded as one of those who have had that
influence over the faith, morals and whole earthly life of their
fellow men, which none but a really great man ever did, or can
exercise; and whose efforts to propagate a great verity will prosper.

W. Montgomery Watt in 'Muhammad at Mecca,' Oxford, 1953.
His readiness to undergo persecution for his beliefs, the high moral
character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as a
leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his
fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more
problems that it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of
history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad.... Thus, not
merely must we credit Muhammad with essential honesty and integrity of
purpose, if we are to understand him at all; if we are to correct the
errors we have inherited from the past, we must not forget the
conclusive proof is a much stricter requirement than a show of
plausibility, and in a matter such as this only to be attained with
difficulty.

D. G. Hogarth in 'Arabia'
Serious or trivial, his daily behavior has instituted a canon which
millions observe this day with conscious memory. No one regarded by
any section of the human race as Perfect Man has ever been imitated so
minutely. The conduct of the founder of Christianity has not governed
the ordinary life of his followers. Moreover, no founder of a religion
has left on so solitary an eminence as the Muslim apostle.

Washington Irving 'Mahomet and His Successors'
He was sober and abstemious in his diet and a rigorous observer of
fasts. He indulged in no magnificence of apparel, the ostentation of a
petty mind; neither was his simplicity in dress affected but a result
of real disregard for distinction from so trivial a source.
In his private dealings he was just. He treated friends and strangers,
the rich and poor, the powerful and weak, with equity, and was beloved
by the common people for the affability with which he received them,
and listened to their complaints.
His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vain glory, as they would
have done had they been effected for selfish purposes. In the time of
his greatest power he maintained the same simplicity of manners and
appearance as in the days of his adversity. So far from affecting a
regal state, he was displeased if, on entering a room, any unusual
testimonials of respect were shown to him. If he aimed at a universal
dominion, it was the dominion of faith; as to the temporal rule which
grew up in his hands, as he used it without ostentation, so he took no
step to perpetuate it in his family.

James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s
Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70.
"No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has
widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the
sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is
explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience."
“Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of
serving as the transmitter of God’s word sensing his own inadequacy.
But the Angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable
to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which
would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one
God"."
“In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son
Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred and rumors of God 's personal
condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have
announced, ‘An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to
attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being'."
“At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man
who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria
with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: ‘If there are
any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you
Worshiped, He lives for ever'.”

Lawrence E. Browne in ‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944
Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so
widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they
went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.

K. S. Ramakrishna Rao in 'Mohammed: The Prophet of Islam,' 1989
My problem to write this monograph is easier, because we are not
generally fed now on that (distorted) kind of history and much time
need not be spent on pointing out our misrepresentations of Islam. The
theory of Islam and sword, for instance, is not heard now in any
quarter worth the name. The principle of Islam that “there is no
compulsion in religion” is well known
Are ye daft or just stoooopid?  Islam is NOT a religion of peace.  Did you
even watch the video.  ALL the verses of peace are at the beginning of the
Quran when Mohammed was a bit more peaceful (if that can be a correct
description).  ALL violent verses take precedence as outlined in the Quran!
There is NO peaceful religions called Islam!  Only uninformed, brain dead,
mentally challenged, wisdom challenged, self-medicating lost souls could
believe that after reading the Quran, Hadiths and Sura.  Yoo Hoo  Which one
are you?
http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/3-things-you-probably-dont-know-...
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." ---Blaise Pascal- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nicodemus
2010-09-20 18:43:56 UTC
Permalink
Without Islam European will be still  in Dark Ages
WHEN THE MOOR RULED EUROPE
http://youtu.be/PM8HnvuKbA
It is very unfortunate to see the latest assaults on the personality
of the most respected man of the mankind.These assaults are a proof
that how our beloved Prophet has been understood by those so called
intellectuals who are claiming that they are free to express any
anything about anybody through various mediums without actually
acquiring the knowledge of what they are expressing.Their expression
might be totally different,If they might have ever attempted to know
about Greatest Personality-THE PROPHET MOHAMMED (PBUH).
Here are some quotes about Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) as described by
some Non-Muslim Intellectuals of their time.
Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History'
1840
"The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round
this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."
"A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to
kindle the world, the world’s Maker had ordered so."
A. S. Tritton in 'Islam,' 1951
The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand
and the Qur'an in the other is quite false.
De Lacy O'Leary in 'Islam at the Crossroads,' London, 1923.
History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims
sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword
upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths
that historians have ever repeated.
Gibbon in 'The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' 1823
The good sense of Muhammad despised the pomp of royalty. The Apostle
of God submitted to the menial offices of the family; he kindled the
fire; swept the floor; milked the ewes; and mended with his own hands
his shoes and garments. Disdaining the penance and merit of a hermit,
he observed without effort of vanity the abstemious diet of an Arab.
Edward Gibbon and Simon Oakley in ‘History of the Saracen Empire,’
London, 1870
"The greatest success of Mohammad’s life was effected by sheer moral
force."
“It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that
deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he
engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved after the revolutions of
twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes
of the Koran....The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation
of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the
senses and imagination of man. ‘I believe in One God and Mahomet the
Apostle of God’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The
intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible
idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of
human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of
his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.”
Reverend Bosworth Smith in 'Muhammad and Muhammadanism,' London,
1874.
"Head of the State as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in
one; but he was Pope without the Pope's pretensions, and Caesar
without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a
bodyguard, without a police force, without a fixed revenue. If ever a
man ruled by a right divine, it was Muhammad, for he had all the
powers without their supports. He cared not for the dressings of
power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his
public life."
"In Mohammadanism every thing is different here. Instead of the
shadowy and the mysterious, we have history....We know of the external
history of Muhammad....while for his internal history after his
mission had been proclaimed, we have a book absolutely unique in its
origin, in its preservation....on the Substantial authority of which
no one has ever been able to cast a serious doubt."
Edward Montet, 'La Propagande Chretienne et ses Adversaries
Musulmans,' Paris 1890. (Also in T.W. Arnold in 'The Preaching of
Islam,' London 1913.)
"Islam is a religion that is essentially rationalistic in the widest
sense of this term considered etymologically and historically....the
teachings of the Prophet, the Qur'an has invariably kept its place as
the fundamental starting point, and the dogma of unity of God has
always been proclaimed therein with a grandeur a majesty, an
invariable purity and with a note of sure conviction, which it is hard
to find surpassed outside the pale of Islam....A creed so precise, so
stripped of all theological complexities and consequently so
accessible to the ordinary understanding might be expected to possess
and does indeed possess a marvelous power of winning its way into the
consciences of men."
Alphonse de LaMartaine in 'Historie de la Turquie,' Paris, 1854.
"Never has a man set for himself, voluntarily or involuntarily, a more
sublime aim, since this aim was superhuman; to subvert superstitions
which had been imposed between man and his Creator, to render God unto
man and man unto God; to restore the rational and sacred idea of
divinity amidst the chaos of the material and disfigured gods of
idolatry, then existing. Never has a man undertaken a work so far
beyond human power with so feeble means, for he (Muhammad) had in the
conception as well as in the execution of such a great design, no
other instrument than himself and no other aid except a handful of men
living in a corner of the desert. Finally, never has a man
accomplished such a huge and lasting revolution in the world, because
in less than two centuries after its appearance, Islam, in faith and
in arms, reigned over the whole of Arabia, and conquered, in God's
name, Persia Khorasan, Transoxania, Western India, Syria, Egypt,
Abyssinia, all the known continent of Northern Africa, numerous
islands of the Mediterranean Sea, Spain, and part of Gaul.
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results
are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any
great man in history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms,
laws, and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than
material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man
moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples, dynasties, but
millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more
than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas,
the beliefs and the souls.
"On the basis of a Book, every letter which has become law, he created
a spiritual nationality which blend together peoples of every tongue
and race. He has left the indelible characteristic of this Muslim
nationality the hatred of false gods and the passion for the One and
Immaterial God. This avenging patriotism against the profanation of
Heaven formed the virtue of the followers of Muhammad; the conquest of
one-third the earth to the dogma was his miracle; or rather it was not
the miracle of man but that of reason.
"The idea of the unity of God, proclaimed amidst the exhaustion of the
fabulous theogonies, was in itself such a miracle that upon it's
utterance from his lips it destroyed all the ancient temples of idols
and set on fire one-third of the world. His life, his meditations, his
heroic revelings against the superstitions of his country, and his
boldness in defying the furies of idolatry, his firmness in enduring
them for fifteen years in Mecca, his acceptance of the role of public
scorn and almost of being a victim of his fellow countrymen... This
dogma was twofold the unity of God and the immateriality of God: the
former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the
one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea
with words.
"Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas,
Restorer of Rational beliefs.... The founder of twenty terrestrial
empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all
standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask,
is there any man greater than he?"
Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in 'Young India,'1924.
I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an
undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became
more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place
for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid
simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous
regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers,
his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in
his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before
them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume
(of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to
read of that great life.
Sir George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.
"If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe
within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."
“I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation
because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which
appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing
phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have
studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an
anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity."
"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of
the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way
that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have
prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to
the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the
Europe of today.”
Michael Hart in 'The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons In
History,' New York, 1978.
My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential
persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but
he was the only ...
read more »
i pray for my only soul

i wondered
Jude Alexander
2010-09-20 19:39:01 UTC
Permalink
"arah" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e12d7505-e5d4-4372-8e3a-***@h25g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
Without Islam European will be still in Dark Ages

WHEN THE MOOR RULED EUROPE

Bull. Yes, the arab nations contributed to science but they have also made
grave scientific mistakes EVEN FROM THE QURAN which says that sperm comes
from the base of the spine! lol


I've read up on Muhammad already quite a bit, I'm sure much more than most.

Back to original intent of post:

Islam is NOT a religion of peace. It is said CLEARLY that if there be a
contradiction in the Quran than the later will take precedence. All the
"peace verses" are in the front of the Quran and all the violent ones are at
the rear and take precedence! There is NO SUCH THING as Peaceful Moslem or
Quran. If any Moslem is truly peaceful, they are equivalent to moderate Jew
and Christian who don't take everything in their book literally in every
case.

Mohammed (real name = Halabi) was a man who had the "sacred disease" of
temporal lobe epilepsy. In fact, of all the religious figures thought to
have epilepsy, Mohammed is the easiest to diagnose because what happened to
him during his "visitations" was detailed by some of his relatives and/or
followers. He had ALL the symptoms. Mohammed himself wrote about being an
epileptic (a fact from the time he was a 3 year old boy - his mother was
also probably an epileptic having visions, seeing ghosts, and other things
not real) and he said, "This is a common affliction of prophets, of whom I
wish to be counted as one." Once during one of the these seizures, Mohammed
even claimed that a heavenly being had split open his stomach, stirred his
insides around and then sewed him back up." (Surah 94:1, Morey: 70)

The Quran has many mistakes. The writings (being the product of ONE man)
can't even get the "conversion experience" right in different passages:

The Quran gives us four conflicting accounts of his original call.
In Surah 15:8, the angels called Mohammed while in Surah 2:97 it was only
one angel, the angel Gabriel "who issues the call...and hands down the
Quran." In Surah 16:102 and 26:192-194 it is said that Mohammed's call
was issued by "the Holy Spirit." In Surah 53:2-18 and 81:19-24 it is said
that Allah personally appeared to Mohammed in the form of a man.

So, like the Quran teaches, the last account is the one you believe! lol

FACT: Mohammed FIRST thought he was possessed when he had his first
"visitation."

After his first experience, Mohammed was stricken with panic, arose and
asked himself, "What did I see? Did possession of the devil which I feared
all along come to pass?" When he calmed down, he cast toward his wife the
glance of a man in need of rescue and said, "O Khadijah, what has happened
to me?" He told her of his experience and intimated to her his fear that his
mind had finally betrayed him, and that he was becoming a seer or a man
possessed. He feared that he had become a kahin (soothsayer) or, worse
still, that he was majnun (possessed of a jinn, the Qur'anic name for a
demon). The words both come from the same root letters and do not just mean
that a person is mad, as is sometimes suggested, but actually
demon-possessed). This belief drove him to even consider suicide at one
point. That he was possessed by a Jinn,/an evil spirit, was his first
thought but his wife persuaded him "that as he was such a good man that he
could not possibly be demon possessed." Only gradually did he come to the
conviction that this was divine inspiration and not diabolical obsession.

Other people thought the same:

The Quran states that the Quraysh specifically charged that Muhammad was
indeed majnun - "a man possessed" (Surah 44.14 - in Surah 37.36 it is
sha'irimmajnun, "a poet possessed") and that a jinn had seized him (Surah
34.8). On many occasions Muhammad is consoled in the Quran against such
charges, for example: maa anta bini 'mati rabbika bimajnun - "Thou art not,
by the grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed." (Surah 68.2, cf. also Surah
81.22), and is cleared of the charge that he is seized with a jinn (Surah
7.184). These constant declarations in the Quran that the revelations were
not from diabolical sources yield the impression that Muhammad's fears in
this respect were not confined just to the first visions he had.

Mohammed hated the Jews because they laughed at his limited and spotty
understanding of their book. His dying wish was to "drive the Jews from the
Arabian peninsula."

Yeah, a real man of peace and a "religion" of peace... NOT!
• R. L. Measures.
2010-09-20 21:05:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by arah
Without Islam European will be still in Dark Ages
WHEN THE MOOR RULED EUROPE
Bull. Yes, the arab nations contributed to science but they have also made
grave scientific mistakes EVEN FROM THE QURAN which says that sperm comes
from the base of the spine! lol
• Guffaw! That's a good one J. A. . My favorite Quran passage is 23:5
which states that it is not adultery in the eyes of Allah for a man to
have sex with his "slave girls". B b... bu ... but beautiful honey
sweetheart darling, that woman you saw me fucking in the back yard was
only one of my "slave girls".
Post by arah
.........
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Jude Alexander
2010-09-20 22:09:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by arah
Without Islam European will be still in Dark Ages
WHEN THE MOOR RULED EUROPE
Bull. Yes, the arab nations contributed to science but they have also made
grave scientific mistakes EVEN FROM THE QURAN which says that sperm comes
from the base of the spine! lol
. Guffaw! That's a good one J. A. . My favorite Quran passage is 23:5
which states that it is not adultery in the eyes of Allah for a man to
have sex with his "slave girls". B b... bu ... but beautiful honey
sweetheart darling, that woman you saw me fucking in the back yard was
only one of my "slave girls".
Also, Mohammed's favorite wife was a child. Leave it up to the "religious"
leader nutcases and lo, and behold, children, multiple wives, plus
concubines get legalized for sex.
• R. L. Measures.
2010-09-21 01:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude Alexander
Post by arah
Without Islam European will be still in Dark Ages
WHEN THE MOOR RULED EUROPE
Bull. Yes, the arab nations contributed to science but they have also made
grave scientific mistakes EVEN FROM THE QURAN which says that sperm comes
from the base of the spine! lol
. Guffaw! That's a good one J. A. . My favorite Quran passage is 23:5
which states that it is not adultery in the eyes of Allah for a man to
have sex with his "slave girls". B b... bu ... but beautiful honey
sweetheart darling, that woman you saw me fucking in the back yard was
only one of my "slave girls".
Also, Mohammed's favorite wife was a child.
** and 9-years old just happens to be the Muslim age of consent.
Post by Jude Alexander
Leave it up to the "religious"
leader nutcases and lo, and behold, children, multiple wives, plus
concubines get legalized for sex.
** Ayatollah Khoumeini wrote a book how to have sex Islamic-style with animals.
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Jude Alexander
2010-09-21 10:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by • R. L. Measures.
Post by Jude Alexander
Post by arah
Without Islam European will be still in Dark Ages
WHEN THE MOOR RULED EUROPE
Bull. Yes, the arab nations contributed to science but they have also made
grave scientific mistakes EVEN FROM THE QURAN which says that sperm comes
from the base of the spine! lol
. Guffaw! That's a good one J. A. . My favorite Quran passage is 23:5
which states that it is not adultery in the eyes of Allah for a man to
have sex with his "slave girls". B b... bu ... but beautiful honey
sweetheart darling, that woman you saw me fucking in the back yard was
only one of my "slave girls".
Also, Mohammed's favorite wife was a child.
** and 9-years old just happens to be the Muslim age of consent.
Post by Jude Alexander
Leave it up to the "religious"
leader nutcases and lo, and behold, children, multiple wives, plus
concubines get legalized for sex.
** Ayatollah Khoumeini wrote a book how to have sex Islamic-style with animals.
I didn't know about that but I did know about having sex with 4 years olds
was completley covered by him. Nice religious sort of guy, huh?
• R. L. Measures.
2010-09-21 18:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude Alexander
Post by • R. L. Measures.
Post by Jude Alexander
Post by arah
Without Islam European will be still in Dark Ages
WHEN THE MOOR RULED EUROPE
Bull. Yes, the arab nations contributed to science but they have also made
grave scientific mistakes EVEN FROM THE QURAN which says that sperm comes
from the base of the spine! lol
. Guffaw! That's a good one J. A. . My favorite Quran passage is 23:5
which states that it is not adultery in the eyes of Allah for a man to
have sex with his "slave girls". B b... bu ... but beautiful honey
sweetheart darling, that woman you saw me fucking in the back yard was
only one of my "slave girls".
Also, Mohammed's favorite wife was a child.
** and 9-years old just happens to be the Muslim age of consent.
Post by Jude Alexander
Leave it up to the "religious"
leader nutcases and lo, and behold, children, multiple wives, plus
concubines get legalized for sex.
** Ayatollah Khoumeini wrote a book how to have sex Islamic-style with animals.
I didn't know about that but I did know about having sex with 4 years olds
was completley covered by him. Nice religious sort of guy, huh?
** prophets seem to have a penchant for young stuff. cheers.
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Peter B
2010-09-23 03:20:52 UTC
Permalink
http://downloads.cbn.com/cbnnewsplayer/cbnplayer.swf?aid=17933
arah
2010-10-01 13:59:49 UTC
Permalink
Salam/ Shalom

You will be surprised what Islam have done to Europe?


http://youtu.be/PM8HnvuKbA


Please share if you love Allah, Jesus, Prophet Muhammad and all
mankind
Post by Peter B
http://downloads.cbn.com/cbnnewsplayer/cbnplayer.swf?aid=17933
Jude Alexander
2010-10-01 14:40:12 UTC
Permalink
"arah" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:5ec6142a-5a04-4036-8e43-***@h7g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Salam/ Shalom

You will be surprised what Islam have done to Europe?

Islam, just like many other religions, have a history of both war and
peacetime.

In summary:

Jewish Bible: Full of commands to make war by God. Fulfilled these
commands often.
Christian BIble: NO commands to make war by God. Went against the commands
of peace from time to time.
Moslem Bible: Full of commands to make war by God. Fulfilled these
commands often.

The ONLY good Jew, Christian or Moslem is a moderate Jew, Christian or
Moslem. Because the Christian accepts the Jewish Bible as the "Old
Tesatment" they too belong to the warring religions. NOBODY who takes their
"book" seriously cannot claim to be a religion of peace.
Patrick
2010-10-01 16:35:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude Alexander
The ONLY good Jew, Christian or Moslem is a moderate Jew, Christian or
Moslem. Because the Christian accepts the Jewish Bible as the "Old
Tesatment" they too belong to the warring religions. NOBODY who takes
their "book" seriously cannot claim to be a religion of peace.
Excellent analysis!
arah
2010-10-01 18:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Moslem Bible: Full of commands to make war by God. Fulfilled these
commands often.

Kindly provide your prove from the Quran
Post by arah
Salam/ Shalom
You will be surprised what Islam have done to Europe?
Islam, just like many other religions, have a history of both war and
peacetime.
Jewish Bible:  Full of commands to make war by God.  Fulfilled these
commands often.
Christian BIble:  NO commands to make war by God.  Went against the commands
of peace from time to time.
Moslem Bible:  Full of commands to make war by God.  Fulfilled these
commands often.
The ONLY good Jew, Christian or Moslem is a moderate Jew, Christian or
Moslem.  Because the Christian accepts the Jewish Bible as the "Old
Tesatment" they too belong to the warring religions.  NOBODY who takes their
"book" seriously cannot claim to be a religion of peace.
Jude Alexander
2010-10-01 21:42:02 UTC
Permalink
"arah" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e80e58e8-2021-4cd0-affb-***@p26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

Moslem Bible: Full of commands to make war by God. Fulfilled these
commands often.

Kindly provide your prove from the Quran

Sneaky little thing aren't you. Such commands to specifically attack this
city or that isn't in the Quran. What IS inthe Quaran are GENERALIZED
commands to fight the infidels, etc. The specific attacks that Mohammed and
his cronies did are a matter of history. Don't insult anybody's
intelligence that they can't access that information easily. As far as the
Quran:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with
nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and
fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not
join the fight are called "hypocrites" and warned that Allah will send them
to Hell if they do not join the slaughter. Listed below are some of those
verses.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mohammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men,
raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking what was once the
property of others for his own. On several occasions he even rejected
offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and killed those whom he
could take prisoner. He inspired his followers to battle even when they did
not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did
and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to
rape traumatized women captured in battle.

It is important to realize that Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns
with an without Mohammed, although it was his companions who made the most
dramatic military gains in the decades following his death. The principle
set in motion early on was that the civilian population of a town
was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves)
if they defended themselves. Although we hear a lot of modern Muslim
apologists laim that Islam only attacked in self-defense, this is flatly
contradicted by the accounts of Muslim historians and others going back to
the time of Mohammad.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Quran (2:191-193): "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive
them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution of
Muslims is worse than slaughter of non-believers...and fight them until
persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

(There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular
passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However,
there are also two worrisome pieces to this verse. The first is that the
killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution," a
qualification that is ambiguous at best. What constitutes a Moslem labeling
something as "persecution?" The second is that fighting may persist until
"religion is for Allah." The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring for
any of us.)

+Quran (2:216): "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto
you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it
may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know
not."

(Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it
also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense,
since tMohammed's audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From
the Hadith, we know that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people
into raiding caravans with this verse.)

+Quran (2:244): "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah
Heareth and knoweth all things."

+Quran (3:56): "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with
terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone
to help."

+Quran (3:151): "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the
Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had
sent no authority."

(This verse speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes
Fundamentalist Christians since they believe in the Trinity, ie. what
Muhammad believed to be "joining companions to Allah.")

+Quran (4:74): "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of
this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or
be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

(The martyrs of Islam are completely unlike the early Christians which were
led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims "martyrs" are killed in battle
as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah.
Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.)

+Quran (4:76): "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah."

+Quran (4:89): "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and
thus be on the same footing as they: But take not friends from their ranks
until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they
turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in
any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

+Quran (4:95): "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive
no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their
goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who
strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at
home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive
and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special
reward,"

(This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence,
letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also
demolishes the myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but
rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this
passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the
physically disabled are given exemption. The Hadith reveals the context of
the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to
engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse.)

+Quran (4:104): "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you
suffer pain, then surely they too suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

(Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?)

+Quran (5:33): "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His
messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they
should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut
off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a
disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a
grievous chastisement"

+Quran (8:12): "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip
of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual
struggle.

+Quran (8:15-16): "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in
battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso on that day turneth his back to
them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly
hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless
journey's end."

+Quran (8:39): "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and
religion should be only for Allah"

(From the historical context we know that the "persecution" spoken of here
was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow MOhammad to enter their city
and perform the Haj. Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as
an armed group, since Muhammad
declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting
in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy
their idols and establish Islam by force (which he ultimately did). Hence,
the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for
Allah."
According to Ibn Ishaq (324), Muhammad justified the violence further by
explaining that "Allah must have no rivals.")

+Quran (8:57): "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to
strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

+Quran (8:59-60): "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can
outstrip Allah's Purpose. Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all
thou canst of armed force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay
the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

+Quran (8:65-81):

(This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings in which a
family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either
through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story, which no
parallel story is found in any Jewish or Christian source, tells of Moses
encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem
to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later
explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason.
However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would
"grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so
that Allah could provide them a "better'" son.)

+Quran (9:5): "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the
idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them
and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up
prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

(According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence
is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among
the religions Five Pillars. To live one had to deny their religious faith
or even non-belief of any faith.).

+Quran (9:14): "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring
them to disgrace..."

(It is clear that punishing them (infidels = non-Moslem) was by human
hands.)

+ Quran (9:20): "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven
with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth
in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."

(The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.)

+Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor
hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger,
nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of
the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and
feel themselves subdued."

("People of the Book" refers to Jews and Christians. This was one of the
final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military
expansion, in which Mohammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of
the Christian world in just the next 100
years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.)

+Quran (9:30): "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the
Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of
their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may
Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

+Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that,
when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the
earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is
the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go
forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your
place."

(This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished
with Hell.)

+Quran (9:41-42): "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with
your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye
but knew." If there had been immediate gain in sight, and the journey easy,
they would all without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long,
and weighed on them."

(This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense,
since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from
home, in another country, on Christian soil in this case, according to
historians.)

+Quran (9:73): "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the
hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is
the destination."

(Dehumanizing those who reject Islam,by reminding Muslims that they are
merely firewood for Hell makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also
explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside
the faith.)

+Quran (9:88): "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive
and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are all good things:
and it is they who will prosper."

+Quran (9:111): "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and
their goods; for theirs in return is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in
His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth,
through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his
covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded:
that is the achievement supreme."

+Quran (9:123): "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are
near to you and let them find in you hardness."

+Quran (21:44): "We gave the good things of this life to these men and
their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We
gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is
it then they who will win?"

+Quran (25:52): "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive
against them with the utmost strenuousness..."

("Strive against" is Jihad and is obviously not in the personal context.
It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.)

+Quran (33:60-62): "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a
disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge
thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little
while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a fierce
slaughter."

(This passage sanctions the fierce slaughter against three groups:
"hypocrites," Muslims who don't act like Muslims should, those with
"diseased hearts," which include Jews and Christians, and "alarmists" who
include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Mohammad's
biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by
Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant
merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included
in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.)

+Quran (47:3-4): "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who
believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form
men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those
who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then
make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle.
The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work
himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill
pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have
exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to
test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He
will never let their deeds be lost."

+Quran (47:35): "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye
should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"
This very important verse asserts that the Religion of Peace is not to grant
peace to the broader society until Islamic rule has been
established.

+Quran (48:17): "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for
the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war).
And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens
underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish
with a painful doom."

(Contemporary apologists claim that Jihad means '"spiritual struggle" and
not holy war. Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted in
this verse?)

+Quran (48:29): "Mohammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are
hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves."

( Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct
standards that are applied based on religious status.)

+Quran (61:4): "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"

+Quran (61:10-12): "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that
will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His
Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your
property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He
will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers
flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity."

(This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word for Jihad.)

+Quran (66:9): "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the
hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless
journey's end."

(The word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war
and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites,"those who
call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.")
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From the Hadiths:

+Abu Dawud (14:2526): The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things
are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters,
"There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin
he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any
action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me
as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with
the Dajjal (Antichrist) .

+Abu Dawud (14:2527): The Prophet said: "Striving in the path of Allah
(jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or
impious."

+Bukhari (8:387): Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the
people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.'"

+Bukhari (52:177): Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established
until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be
hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

+Bukhari (52:256): The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to
attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their
women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (women and
children) are from them (pagans)."

(In this command, MOhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill
non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides
justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.)

+Bukhari (52:220): Allah's Apostle said... "I have been made victorious
with terror."

+Ibn Ishaq: 327: Allah said, "A prophet must slaughter before collecting
captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. MOhammad, you craved
the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring.
But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

+Ibn Ishaq: 990:

(Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah
Akbar!' is a modern invention, here is an account of that very practice
under MOhammad, who seems to approve.)

+Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who
disbelieve in Allah."

(Mohammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.)

+Muslim (1:33): the Messenger of Allah said: 'I have been commanded to
fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

+Muslim (1:149):"Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of
the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: "Belief in Allah and
Jihad in His cause..."

+Muslim (20:4645): ...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: "There
is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade
one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is
equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id)
said: What is that act? He replied: "Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the
way of Allah!"

+Muslim (20:4696): the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:
"One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any
desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite."

+Muslim (19:4321-4323): Three separate hadith in which Mohammad shrugs over
the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against
unbelievers. His response: "They (innocent children) are of them (meaning
the enemy)."

+Tabari 7:97: The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared,
"Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

(Ashraf was a poet killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam.
Here, Mohammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish
businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being
non-Muslim.)

+Tabari 9:69: "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us."

(The words of Mohammad, prophet of Islam.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Muslims have killed nearly every non-Muslim under their legal domain (in
their own countries) when it's in their power to do, so there is very little
that
they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion.

However, to be honest, there are a few verses in the Quran which can be
construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and
universal brotherhood. However, those verses are earlier "Meccan" verses
that are obviously abrogated by later ones.

Muslim apologists spend a lot of time speaking of the "risks" of trying to
interpret the Quran without their assistance. In essence, they say "Let US
tell you what the Quran say because you don't understand.... this
excuse..... that excuse." Wonder why
now? Hopefully not.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." ---Blaise Pascal
I
2010-10-02 00:47:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude Alexander
Moslem Bible: Full of commands to make war by God. Fulfilled these
commands often.
Kindly provide your prove from the Quran
...
What IS inthe Quaran are GENERALIZED commands to fight the infidels, etc.
...
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with
nonbelievers.
The same type of commands are also found in the Old & New Testament.
Revelation is as blood thirsty as it gets with the "Prince of Peace" waging
war on non-Christians.

What you failed to read in the Quran are the following. Notethat "believers"
(The people of the book -Jews, Christians and Moslems who follow God and do
what is right) are told in The Chambers 2 [49.10] The believers are but
brethren, therefore make peace between your brethren and be careful of (your
duty to) Allah that mercy may be had on you. The Quran begins with "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Opening
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[1.1] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
[1.2] The Beneficent, the Merciful.


######
The Cow

2.. [2.224] And make not Allah because of your swearing (by Him) an
obstacle to your doing good and guarding (against evil) and making peace
between men, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

The Women

1.. [4.90] Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is
an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or
fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given
them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you;
therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you
peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.

The Accessions

1.. [8.61] And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in
Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

Abraham

1.. [14.23] And those who believe and do good are made to enter gardens,
beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them by their Lord's permission;
their greeting therein is, Peace.

Yasin

1.. [36.58] Peace: a word from a Merciful Lord.

The Chambers

1.. [49.9] And if two parties of the believers quarrel, make peace between
them; but if one of them acts wrongfully towards the other, fight that which
acts wrongfully until it returns to Allah's command; then if it returns,
make peace between them with justice and act equitably; surely Allah loves
those who act equitably.

2.. [49.10] The believers are but brethren, therefore make peace between
your brethren and be careful of (your duty to) Allah that mercy may be had
on you.

The Banishment
1.. [59.23] He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the King, the Holy,
the Giver of peace, the Granter of security, Guardian over all, the Mighty,
the Supreme, the Possessor of every greatness Glory be to Allah from what
they set up (with Him).

###########################################
duke
2010-10-02 11:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude Alexander
Moslem Bible: Full of commands to make war by God. Fulfilled these
commands often.
Kindly provide your prove from the Quran
Just check your tv. You'll see the undesirable effects of the Quran. If
you peace loving muslins believe what it says, put a stop to terrorism.
I
2010-10-02 00:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude Alexander
Islam, just like many other religions, have a history of both war and
peacetime.
Jewish Bible: Full of commands to make war by God. Fulfilled these
commands often.
Christian BIble: NO commands to make war by God. Went against the
commands of peace from time to time.
Moslem Bible: Full of commands to make war by God. Fulfilled these
commands often.
The ONLY good Jew, Christian or Moslem is a moderate Jew, Christian or
Moslem. Because the Christian accepts the Jewish Bible as the "Old
Tesatment" they too belong to the warring religions. NOBODY who takes
their "book" seriously cannot claim to be a religion of peace.
Exactly! It is the radical fundamentalists of all religions who are
intolerant and war-mongering. You know them by their fruits.
Fundamehntalists are constantly waging war and not bringing peace.
Matt
2010-09-21 18:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by arah
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Quran, Surah 5:Ayat: 82-83 "And thou wilt find the nearest of them in
affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are
Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks,
and because they are not proud. When they listen to that which hath
been revealed unto the messenger, thou seest their eyes overflow with
tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord,
we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses"
A Christian Minister's Conversion to Islam
http://youtu.be/CKXKKyyXG4g
I prefer seeing those that have rejected Islam and found Christ.
Those souls are brave and good. They do so under death threat from
the "Religion of peace" Islam.

Wait go to Dearborn, Michigan in the USA and hand out Bible pamphlets
and get arrested.
arah
2010-09-22 05:54:45 UTC
Permalink
My dear Matt.

Please share with me if there is any prominent Islamic Scholar who
convert to Christianity.

Why are Christian priests and missionaries embracing Islam ? ! You can
find many converts from Christianity to Islam there, as well as
Christians who are learning more about Islam.

Below a collection of converts' stories which are enlightening, heart-
warming and inspiring in equal measure. These new Muslims come from a
variety of backgrounds. They include intellectuals, scientists,
priests, Rabbis, missionaries, and artists, young and old, famous and
laypersons, from around the globe. Most of these converts are former
Christians or from a Christian background. These testimonies only
represent a drop in the ocean however, since every day hundreds of
people convert to Islam all around the world. Amongst the most
powerful and thought-provoking testimonies are those of former
Christian priests and missionaries who have discovered the one true
religion.

This is a tremendous challenge to Christian missionaries. Instead of
spending $500 millions trying to convert poor and sick Muslims, they
should concentrate their efforts on their own people!



Priests and missionaries

Prof. Abdul Ahad Dawud, Former Bishop of Uramiah, Formerly the
Reverend David Benjamin Keldani, B.D.

Abdullah al-Faruq - Formerly Kenneth L. Jenkins, minister and elder of
the Pentecostal Church

Abu Ishaq, Coptic Cardinal accepts Islam

Anonymous Female Missionary - Former Catholic missionary

Anselm Tormeeda - 14th century CE scholar and priest

Dr. Gary Miller (Abdul-Ahad Omar) - Former missionary

George Anthony - Former Catholic priest

Ibrahim Khalil - Former Egyptian Coptic priest

Dr. Jerald F. Dirks - Former minister (deacon) of the United Methodist
Church.

Khadijah 'Sue' Watson - Former pastor, missionary, professor. Master's
degree in Divinity

Martin John Mwaipopo - Former Lutheran Archbishop

Muslima, The Former Catholic Missionary (Burundi) I understood that
the church was being deceitful

Rabbi Moisha Krivitsky of Makhachkala synagogue. ‘I live in the
mosque’.
Raphael Narbaez, Jr.- Former Jehovah's Witness minister, Latino in
Los Anodes.
Selma A. Cook, , Australian Missionary’s Journey to Allah.

S.M. SULAYMAN, (Former Baptist Church Minister), U.S.A.
Viacheslav Polosin - Former Archpriest of the Russian Orthodox Church

Dr. Yahya A.R. Lehmann, Doctor of Theology, (Former Roman Catholic
Priest Germany)


A List of Notable converts to Islam
A Famous Converts To Islam

Abdur-Raheem Greene (Formerly Anthony Greene) the well known caller
to Islam

Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, the great Muslim scholar

Famous Singer Chauncey Hawkins (Loon) embraced Islam!

Dileep Kumar, Leaving Celebrity Status Behind

Lady Evelyn Zeinab Cobbold, I have always been a Muslim.

Hamza Yusuf (Mark Hanson), Destined for Greek Orthodox priesthood,
turned to great Islamic preacher.

Keith Ellison, First Muslim elected to Congress
Kristiane Backer Website , Former Christian & MTV Host Kristiane
Backer ... , TV presenter and journalist based in London

Lord Headley Al-Farooq (England), Peer, Statesman, and Author.
Hülya Kandemir, German Pop Singer Finds Destination in Islam.

Dr. Jeffrey Lang, Professor of Mathematics at the University of
Kansas, and Author of Islamic books.

Jermaine Jackson, brother of world-famous star Michael Jackson.

Jemima Goldsmith, HEADLINE: Why I chose Islam.

Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe, the greatest writer of the German
tradition.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, The greatest basketball player of all time.

Leo Tolstoy, A confession by the Russian giant in the world of
literature.

Malcolm X - In His Own Words, USA, The famous Afro-American Muslim.

Michael Wolfe, Author and writer of Islamic documentaries.

Dr. Maurice Bucaille, Author of "The Bible, The Qur'an and
Science",

Muhammad Ali, The first three-time Heavy Weight Champion of the
World.

Muhammad Asad (Austria), Statesman, Journalist, Author, and translator
of the Quran.

Nuh Ha Mim Keller, From an American Catholic to one of the leading
contemporary scholars of Islam.

PROF. UMAR MITA, Economist, Social Worker and Preacher, (Japan).

Wilfried (Murad) Hofmann, German Diplomat And NATO Officer.

Yusuf Islam (Formerly Cat Stevens) Famous ex-Rock Star.

Yvonne Ridley In the Hands of the Taliban: From Captive to Convert

Why Did They Become Muslims, Waqf Ikhlas Publications No: 16, HAKIKAT
KITABEVI, Fatih-ISTANBUL/TURKEY, 2000



Sisters

Young. British. Female. Muslim. Thousands of young British women
living in the UK decide to convert to Islam - here are some of their
stories
Aminah Assilmi "I couldn't be a Muslim! I was American and white!"

Asiya Abd al-Zahir,Australia, "..the only religion I have ever been
completely sure of.."

Chahida Zanabi, Norway, "..i found [a belief that Jesus died]
illogical and unjust"

Elizabeth Clarke, Palm Beach Post Religion Writer. Convert Finds
Women's Rights in Islam

Fareena Alam, 18 years old female convert, the author of the great
Website: http://www.themodernreligion.com/index.html

Haji Maryam Mohammed Ahmed, American Muslima, She lives only to talk
about Islam

Karen's Testimony. "If Jesus is God, then why did he have a
conversation with God"

Dr. Kari Ann Owen.USA, Jewish, "I began to look .. to Islamic culture
for moral guidance"

KIMM HENRY, A revert Story

Madonna Johnson "..all of my turmoil and anxiety was gone.."

Maryam al-Mahdayah, There is no more conflict within, because I have
come home".

Maryam Jameelah, Converts' Stories: Interview with Maryam (formerly
Margaret Marcus)

Maureen McCormick, Life is good for Muslim women

Michelle, "I came from a Jewish family in New York."

Nakata Khaula, A Japanese Woman's Experience of Hijab.

Noor, UK, Insights into Women in Islam vs. Women in Hinduism.

Jocelyn Wiener, Times Staff Writer. Young, Female and Muslim

Rashida S. (Rachel Singer) daughter of a devout Roman Catholic mother/
very devout Jewish father.

Rita, God works in mysterious ways

Somayyah, From a Bathing Suit to Hijab.

Tasha, I had been studying Islam ever since I was in 7th grade.

Um Luqman, "Jesus(AS) made sense to me as being a Prophet".

Zainab's Testimony. USA, "No a guy did not convert me". An ex-Sunday
School teacher

Sister Zainab Oñez Discovered Islam while training to be a nun.

http://www.usislam.org/converts/converts.htm
Post by Matt
Post by arah
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Quran, Surah 5:Ayat: 82-83 "And thou wilt find the nearest of them in
affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are
Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks,
and because they are not proud. When they listen to that which hath
been revealed unto the messenger, thou seest their eyes overflow with
tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord,
we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses"
  A Christian Minister's Conversion to Islam
http://youtu.be/CKXKKyyXG4g
I prefer seeing those that have rejected Islam and found Christ.
Those souls are brave and good.  They do so under death threat from
the "Religion of peace"   Islam.
Wait go to Dearborn, Michigan in the USA and hand out Bible pamphlets
and get arrested.  - Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I
2010-09-22 07:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by arah
Please share with me if there is any prominent Islamic Scholar who
convert to Christianity.
There are converts to and from both Christianity and Islam (and between them
and other religions and lack of religion). Within Christianity there are
also changes - Catholics convert to Protestantism and Protestants convert to
Catholocism. Some of both denominations also convert to atheism - or
Judaism. Numbers for each conversion do not indicate which is the one and
only true religion. Truth is not dependent upon majority numbers of
adherents.
Post by arah
Why are Christian priests and missionaries embracing Islam ?
My guess is that it is because Islam is truly monotheistic like Judaism.
Christianity claims to be monotheistic yet the majority of Christians
worship three gods - one of which is a human. It is that human who
unfortunately takes precedence in all matters. Some Christians (like
myself) view Jesus as a prophet and not God (as does Islam). It is the One
God of Abraham that matters. Egyptian Christians also call this One God
Al-Lah. It is that One God alone whom I worship as a Christian.
Post by arah
This is a tremendous challenge to Christian missionaries.
Indeed! I have a friend who is a Christian clergyman who is currently
overseas trying to convert Moslems in a foreign country to Christianity -
without much success. He would do better to learn from the many truths of
Islam and to read the Koran which has many truths and beautiful passages.
Try http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/ which also has search capabilities
(if you do not own a personal copy of the Koran as I do).

Islam is NOT a religion of war and hatred but one of peace. At one stage in
history Moslems led the world in science and philosophy.

It is the FUNDAMENTALISTS within both Islam and Christianity that give their
repective religions a bad name.

The Koran stresses peace and the unity of the One God of Abraham - the
father of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In past times Jews, Christians
and Moslems lived in harmony together. That is also possible today. They
are all "people of the book".

Most Christians are totally ignorant of the koran and have never read the
whole of their Bible let alone the Koran. I have read both and find truth
in both. I have also found texts of hatred for the outsider in both the
Bible and Koran but one spits out the bad and tastes the good.

COEXIST
Jude Alexander
2010-09-22 11:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by I
Post by arah
Please share with me if there is any prominent Islamic Scholar who
convert to Christianity.
There are converts to and from both Christianity and Islam (and between
them and other religions and lack of religion). Within Christianity there
are also changes - Catholics convert to Protestantism and Protestants
convert to Catholocism. Some of both denominations also convert to
atheism - or Judaism. Numbers for each conversion do not indicate which
is the one and only true religion. Truth is not dependent upon majority
numbers of adherents.
Post by arah
Why are Christian priests and missionaries embracing Islam ?
My guess is that it is because Islam is truly monotheistic like Judaism.
Christianity claims to be monotheistic yet the majority of Christians
worship three gods - one of which is a human. It is that human who
unfortunately takes precedence in all matters. Some Christians (like
myself) view Jesus as a prophet and not God (as does Islam). It is the
One God of Abraham that matters. Egyptian Christians also call this One
God Al-Lah. It is that One God alone whom I worship as a Christian.
Post by arah
This is a tremendous challenge to Christian missionaries.
Indeed! I have a friend who is a Christian clergyman who is currently
overseas trying to convert Moslems in a foreign country to Christianity -
without much success. He would do better to learn from the many truths of
Islam and to read the Koran which has many truths and beautiful passages.
Try http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/ which also has search capabilities
(if you do not own a personal copy of the Koran as I do).
Islam is NOT a religion of war and hatred but one of peace. At one stage
in history Moslems led the world in science and philosophy.
It is a religion of war. Hatred comes with the territory when you give
people the idea that they are the "chosen ones" just like all
Fundamentalistic religions teach. How can you not see that with Islam and
see it so clearly with Judiasm?
Post by I
It is the FUNDAMENTALISTS within both Islam and Christianity that give
their repective religions a bad name.
The books are written in Fundamentalilstic orientation. If anybody follows
their books to the letter, then they are ALL violent religions, the
semi-exception would be Christianity with the dogma of a New Testament with
Jesus as it's guide, who was non-materialistic, completely non-violent (even
in situation of self defense) and a-political (did not seek political power
or influence.)
Post by I
The Koran stresses peace and the unity of the One God of Abraham - the
father of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In past times Jews, Christians
and Moslems lived in harmony together. That is also possible today. They
are all "people of the book".
When Mohammed was of a more peaceful mind, the vast majority of peaceful
verses in the Quran was given but later on Mohammed became more and more
violent in his spread of Islam and the text followed. Mohammed gave
instruction that when ever there were contradictory passages in the Quran
the latest most would have precedence. Islam is NOT a religion of peace.

Abraham is not mentioned in the Quran once. It is only by inference and
reading the Jewish bible (O.T) that we know that Abraham begat Esau who
ultimately begat the Arab nation(s).
Post by I
Most Christians are totally ignorant of the koran and have never read the
whole of their Bible let alone the Koran. I have read both and find truth
in both. I have also found texts of hatred for the outsider in both the
Bible and Koran but one spits out the bad and tastes the good.
I haven't read it cover to cover. It's so boring. The only more boring
book is the book of Mormons.
Post by I
COEXIST
That would be nice but to point out that Islam is a religion of peace
surprises me about you, although I've suspected you of being more Islam
friendly than anything else. I don't know why.
I
2010-09-22 12:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude Alexander
Post by I
Islam is NOT a religion of war and hatred but one of peace. At one stage
in history Moslems led the world in science and philosophy.
It is a religion of war. Hatred comes with the territory when you give
people the idea that they are the "chosen ones" just like all
Fundamentalistic religions teach. How can you not see that with Islam and
see it so clearly with Judiasm?
Fundamentalists of all religions are filled with hate. Islam has moderates
as in Christianity and Judaism who are sensible and level-headed. One
should not judge a religion by it's book or its fundamentalists.
Post by Jude Alexander
Post by I
It is the FUNDAMENTALISTS within both Islam and Christianity that give
their repective religions a bad name.
The books are written in Fundamentalilstic orientation. If anybody
follows their books to the letter, then they are ALL violent religions,
the semi-exception would be Christianity with the dogma of a New Testament
with Jesus as it's guide, who was non-materialistic, completely
non-violent (even in situation of self defense) and a-political (did not
seek political power or influence.)
The New Testament has one of the bloodiest books of all which portrays the
Prince of Peace as a war-monger - Revelation. It is no wonder that
Fundamentalists favour this book.
Kenny McCormack
2010-09-22 12:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by I
Post by Jude Alexander
Post by I
Islam is NOT a religion of war and hatred but one of peace. At one stage
in history Moslems led the world in science and philosophy.
It is a religion of war. Hatred comes with the territory when you give
people the idea that they are the "chosen ones" just like all
Fundamentalistic religions teach. How can you not see that with Islam and
see it so clearly with Judiasm?
Fundamentalists of all religions are filled with hate. Islam has moderates
as in Christianity and Judaism who are sensible and level-headed. One
should not judge a religion by it's book or its fundamentalists.
Totally disagree. If you can't judge a body of thought by a) the book(s)
it holds sacred and/or b) its True Believers, then what should you judge
it by?

The book is *obviously* authoritative. There really doesn't seem to be
anything else I need to say on that point.

And, as Sam Harris points out, although most religious people are not
True Believers (aka, fundies of whatever stripe), the moderates give
deep cover for the TBs. I.e., the TBs can't be rooted out as long as
the moderates are required to pretend to believe the same things as the
whackos actually do.

Religion is, indeed, a curse.
--
One of the best lines I've heard lately:

Obama could cure cancer tomorrow, and the Republicans would be
complaining that he had ruined the pharmaceutical business.

(Heard on Stephanie Miller = but the sad thing is that there is an awful lot
of direct truth in it. We've constructed an economy in which eliminating
cancer would be a horrible disaster. There are many other such examples.)
I
2010-09-23 00:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny McCormack
Post by I
Fundamentalists of all religions are filled with hate. Islam has moderates
as in Christianity and Judaism who are sensible and level-headed. One
should not judge a religion by it's book or its fundamentalists.
Totally disagree. If you can't judge a body of thought by a) the book(s)
it holds sacred and/or b) its True Believers, then what should you judge
it by?
Jesus said that you judge them by their fruits - orthopraxis.
Post by Kenny McCormack
The book is *obviously* authoritative.
Nope. God is authoritative.
--
The Bible ...[is] ... a collection of human responses to God (very human,
some of them all too human), which we are at liberty to use in the process
of formulating our own individual, unique response to God. we don't do that
by imitating these responses slavishly. I mean God, if he exists, doesn't
want innumerable clones of the apostle Paul. He wants us to respond to him,
each of us in our own unique way. And we can use the Bible to do that, but
we don't do it by obeying it slavishly and blindly.
- Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p.195
arah
2010-10-01 17:55:44 UTC
Permalink
My dear Jude Alexander

We will never understand a religion by their followers.

Please get back to the fundamental and learn Al Quran and the Hadith
( Practised and Saying of Prophet Muhammad.

Enjoy this show


Post by I
Post by arah
Please share with me if there is any prominent Islamic Scholar who
convert to Christianity.
There are converts to and from both Christianity and Islam (and between
them and other religions and lack of religion). Within Christianity there
are also changes - Catholics convert to Protestantism and Protestants
convert to Catholocism.  Some of both denominations also convert to
atheism - or Judaism.  Numbers for each conversion do not indicate which
is the one and only true religion.  Truth is not dependent upon majority
numbers of adherents.
Post by arah
Why are Christian priests and missionaries embracing Islam ?
My guess is that it is because Islam is truly monotheistic like Judaism.
Christianity claims to be monotheistic yet the majority of Christians
worship three gods - one of which is a human.  It is that human who
unfortunately takes precedence in all matters.  Some Christians (like
myself) view Jesus as a prophet and not God (as does Islam).  It is the
One God of Abraham that matters.  Egyptian Christians also call this One
God Al-Lah. It is that One God alone whom I worship as a Christian.
Post by arah
This is a tremendous challenge to Christian missionaries.
Indeed!  I have a friend who is a Christian clergyman who is currently
overseas trying to convert Moslems in a foreign country to Christianity -
without much success.  He would do better to learn from the many truths of
Islam and to read the Koran which has many truths and beautiful passages.
Tryhttp://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/which also has search capabilities
(if you do not own a personal copy of the Koran as I do).
Islam is NOT a religion of war and hatred but one of peace.  At one stage
in history Moslems led the world in science and philosophy.
It is a religion of war.  Hatred comes with the territory when you give
people the idea that they are the "chosen ones" just like all
Fundamentalistic religions teach.  How can you not see that with Islam and
see it so clearly with Judiasm?
Post by I
It is the FUNDAMENTALISTS within both Islam and Christianity that give
their repective religions a bad name.
The books are written in Fundamentalilstic orientation.  If anybody follows
their books to the letter, then they are ALL violent religions, the
semi-exception would be Christianity with the dogma of a New Testament with
Jesus as it's guide, who was non-materialistic, completely non-violent (even
in situation of self defense) and a-political (did not seek political power
or influence.)
Post by I
The Koran stresses peace and the unity of the One God of Abraham - the
father of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  In past times Jews, Christians
and Moslems lived in harmony together.  That is also possible today. They
are all "people of the book".
When Mohammed was of a more peaceful mind, the vast majority of peaceful
verses in the Quran was given but later on Mohammed became more and more
violent in his spread of Islam and the text followed.  Mohammed gave
instruction that when ever there were contradictory passages in the Quran
the latest most would have precedence.  Islam is NOT a religion of peace.
Abraham is not mentioned in the Quran once.  It is only by inference and
reading the Jewish bible (O.T) that we know that Abraham begat Esau who
ultimately begat the Arab nation(s).
Post by I
Most Christians are totally ignorant of the koran and have never read the
whole of their Bible let alone the Koran.  I have read both and find truth
in both. I have also found texts of hatred for the outsider in both the
Bible and Koran but one spits out the bad and tastes the good.
I haven't read it cover to cover.  It's so boring.  The only more boring
book is the book of Mormons.
Post by I
COEXIST
That would be nice but to point out that Islam is a religion of peace
surprises me about you, although I've suspected you of being more Islam
friendly than anything else.  I don't know why.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Jude Alexander
2010-10-01 21:50:10 UTC
Permalink
"arah" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:87fa397e-1685-42a1-8b39-***@k10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
My dear Jude Alexander

We will never understand a religion by their followers.

This I agree with. However, there is much criticism that Mohammed himself
has honestly gotten. Why don't YOU study Mohammed from differing points of
views. I've done that as well. I gave the man a chance but in the end I
could only conclude that he was an temporal lobe epileptic who, like most,
had attacks and when his brain cells were misfiring his brain perceived
angelic visits and heard voice(s). Above ALL the religious figure to be
suspected of having a brain disorder, Mohammed is the most easily diagnosed
because there is so much description of his seizures. He also commented on
being an epileptic. He, like many of his days, believed that epilepsy was
the "sacred disease" of prophets. If you haven't read that part of one of
his biographers, then why are you asking ME to do more research?

Please get back to the fundamental and learn Al Quran and the Hadith
Practised and Saying of Prophet Muhammad.

I have studied Christianity much more than Islam but Islam is the 2nd
religion I've studied the most. There is NO such thing as a peaceful Islam.
If people CHOOSE to ignore certain passages within the Quran to live
relatively peaceful lives, that one thing but to actually claim that there
is nothing in the Quran about committing violence to others who don't
believe in Allah is a lie.
• R. L. Measures.
2010-09-22 12:10:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by I
Post by arah
Please share with me if there is any prominent Islamic Scholar who
convert to Christianity.
There are converts to and from both Christianity and Islam (and between them
and other religions and lack of religion). Within Christianity there are
also changes - Catholics convert to Protestantism and Protestants convert to
Catholocism. Some of both denominations also convert to atheism - or
Judaism. Numbers for each conversion do not indicate which is the one and
only true religion. Truth is not dependent upon majority numbers of
adherents.
• Good points. However, I doubt that there are very many - if any - gay
Muslims who convert from a religion like Islam whose heaven/paradise
provides eternally youthful boys for the faithful to a religion that
condems homosexuality - like Christianity and Judaism.

"They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who to the
beholder¹s eyes will seem like sprinkled pearls. When you gaze upon that
scene, you will behold a kingdom blissful and glorious."
--- Qur'an 76:19

-- " ... young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls."
-- Qur'an 52:20
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
arah
2010-10-01 18:12:05 UTC
Permalink
Dear Richard L. Measures

Teach me what the bible said about heaven and hell.

Heaven according to the Noble Quran and Hadiths description:


Paradise: Description in the Qur'an

Our final destination is the life of the Hereafter. Where we end up,
Jannah (Paradise) or Jahannam (Hell-fire) depends on what we worked
towards in this life. Paradise is the aim and the hope of every
Muslim. But like trying to attain any goal, in order to achieve
success, one must have a well-defined plan, and it must be implemented
to be successful. Allah says, "O you who believe! Be careful of (your
duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in
His way that you may be successful." [5:35] To prepare for our
journey, we need to find out what our destination is like; who are its
people, and most importantly, how to get there.

The Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wasallam, told us that within Paradise
are things that no eyes have ever seen, nor ears have ever heard, and
that things in it are beyond our imagination and comprehension, but we
all have our own personal ideas of what eternal bliss would probably
be like. I remember a few years ago, I overheard my niece and my
nephew discussing the landscape, and the privileges of living in
Jannah. My nephew was telling my niece that in Jannah, they would be
able to eat all the candy that they wanted and that there would be
streams of chocolate and trees of ice cream. I always tell people,
that Paradise for me, would be being able to eat all the cheesecake
and chocolate that I wanted, without gaining a pound. But what Allah
has in store for the believers is so much more than this. He, in His
Book, and through His Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wasallam, has
given us a clear picture of our goal, so that we can keep it in front
of us at all times. By keeping our eyes on theprize, no matter our
hardships in this worldly life, we can strive that much harder to
attain it.

Allah says, "And whoever desires the Hereafter and strives for it as
he ought to strive and he is a believer; (as for) these, their
striving shall surely be accepted." [17:19] Allah has also described
Paradise in many places in the Qur'an, so let us now take a look at
what He has in store for the believers.


Description in the Qur'an of Paradise

“The description of Paradise which the Muttaqoon have been promised is
that in it are rivers of water, the taste and smell of which are never
changed. Rivers of milk the taste of which will remain unchanged.
Rivers of wine that will be delicious to those who drink from it and
rivers of clear, pure honey. For them will be every kind of fruit and
forgiveness form their Lord." [47:15]

"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because
they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there
neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold,
(as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close
upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach.
Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst
them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure
of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine)
mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them
will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think
they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will
see a delight (that can not be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their
garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be
adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a pure
drink." [76:12-21]

"And those foremost (In Tawheed and obedience to Allah and His
Messenger in this life) will be foremost (in Paradise). They will be
those nearest to Allah in the Gardens of Delight. A multitude of those
(the foremost) will be from the first generation (who embraced Islam)
and a few of those (the foremost) will be from the later
(generations). They will be reclining, face to face, on thrones woven
with gold and precious stones. They will be served by immortal boys,
with cups and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, from which they
will have neither any headache, nor any intoxication. They will have
fruit from which they may choose, and the flesh of fowls that they
desire. There will be Houris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the
pious), like preserved pearls, a reward for deeds that they used to
do. They will hear no vain or sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.)
but only the saying of: Salam, Salam, (greetings of peace). And those
on the Right Hand, who will be those on the Right Hand? They will be
among thorn-less lote-trees among Talh (banana trees) with fruits
piled one above another, in long-extended shade, by constantly flowing
water, and fruit in plenty, whose season is not limited, and their
supply will not be cut off. They will be on couches or thrones raised
high. Verily, We have created for them (maidens) of equal age, loving
(their husbands only). For those on the Right Hand." [56:10-38]

"Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful
things. They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on
thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds), and all that
they will ask for. (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on
you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful." [36:55-58]

Can you imagine? Wearing the finest silk clothing and sitting on
chairs made of gold and precious stones? Those who disbelieve in the
words of Allah, say that this is all a fairy-tale, made up by a would-
be prophet. But we know, that Allah is the Truthful and that His
Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wasallam, spoke only what was revealed to
from the Most Truthful. And even though Allah describes Paradise for
us in the Qur'an, He still says, "So no soul knows the delights of the
eyes which is hidden for them; a reward for what they did." [32:17]

Apart from the Qur'anic descriptions of Paradise, the Prophet
Muhammad, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, would often describe Paradise
to his companions. His descriptions were oftentimes so vivid and
moving, that many-a-companion would hurriedly rush towards it. This
was the case, as Anas narrated that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu
alayhe wasallam, and his companions proceeded towards Badr and arrived
there before the disbelievers (of Makkah). When the disbelievers
arrived, the Messenger of Allah said, "None of you should step forward
ahead of me to do anything." Then the disbelievers advanced (towards
us), and the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu alayhi wasallam, said,
"Rise to enter Paradise whose width is equal to the Heavens and the
Earth." Umayr Ibnul Humam al-Ansari asked, "O Messenger of Allah, is
Paradise equal in width to the heavens and the earth?" He, sallallahu
alayhe wasallam, said, "Yes." Umayr said, "Bak'hin! Bak'hin!" (An
Arabic word denoting excitement and astonishment) The Messenger of
Allah, sallallahu alayhe wasallam, asked him, "What made you say these
words: Bak'hin, Bak'hin?" He said, "Messenger of Allah, nothing but
the desire to be amongst its residents." He, sallallahu alayhe
wasallam, said, "You are surely among its residents." He then took
some dates form his bag and began to eat them. Then he said, "If I
were to live until I had eaten all of the dates, indeed this life
would be too long." Anas then said, "He threw away the remaining dates
he had with him. He then fought (the disbelievers) until he was
killed." (Muslim)

What words could have inspired Umair and others like him to long for,
and to pay the ultimate price for a place in Paradise? Let's now take
a look at what the Messenger of Allah, had to say about Paradise.


Paradise: Description in the Hadith

Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri narrated that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu
alayhe wasallam, said, "The people of Paradise will look at the
dwellers of lofty mansions (i.e. a superior place in Paradise) in the
same way as one looks at a brilliant star, far away in the East or in
the West of the horizon. This is because of their superiority over one
another (in reward)." One of the people asked, "O Allah's Messenger,
are these lofty mansions for the Prophets which no one else can
reach?" The Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wasallam, replied, "No! By
Allah, in whose Hands is my life, these are for men who believe in
Allah and also believe in the Messenger." (Bukhari and Muslim)

Abu Mousa al-Ash'ari narrated that the Prophet, sallallahu alayhe
wasallam, said, "Verily, for the believers in Paradise, are tents made
of a single hollow pear. The length of which would be sixty miles long
from all sides, their wives being therein. The believer will go around
them (i.e., visit them) and they will not be able to see each
other." (Sahih al-Jami)

Abu Hurairah said that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu alayhe
wasallam, said, "There is not a tree in Paradise, except that its
trunk is made of gold." (Sahih al-Jami)

Anas ibn Malik narrated that the Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wasallam,
said, "Verily in Paradise there is a market in which (the inhabitants
of Paradise) will come to every Friday. The North wind will blow and
scatter fragrances on their faces and on their clothes. This will add
to their beauty and their attractiveness. They will then go back to
their families after having an added luster to their beauty and their
attractiveness. Their families will say to them, 'By Allah you have
been increased in beauty and loveliness after leaving us,' and they
will say, 'By Allah you too have increased in beauty and
attractiveness after us.'" (Muslim)

Jabir ibn Abdullah narrated that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu
alayhe wasallam, said, "(I saw in a dream that) I entered Paradise,
and behold, there was a palace built of gold. I asked, 'Whose is this
palace?' They (the angels) replied, 'For a man from the Quraysh.' So I
thought it might be I, so I asked, 'And who is he?' They said, 'Umar
Ibnul Khattab.' Nothing stopped me form entering it except your Ghirah
(sense of honor)." Umar said, "My Ghirah would never be offended by
you, O Messenger of Allah." (Bukhari and Muslim)

Anas ibn Malik said that Allah's Apostle sallallahu alayhe wasallam,
said, "I entered Paradise and found myself by a river, by its edges
were tents of pearls. Then I tapped with my hands where the water was
running, and there was then a beautiful smell of Musk. I asked, 'What
is this O Gabriel?' He said, 'This is Kawthar (river in Paradise)
which Allah has given to you.'" (Sahih al-Jami)

http://www.answering-christianity.com/heaven_hell.htm
Post by I
Post by arah
Please share with me if there is any prominent Islamic Scholar who
convert to Christianity.
There are converts to and from both Christianity and Islam (and between them
and other religions and lack of religion). Within Christianity there are
also changes - Catholics convert to Protestantism and Protestants convert to
Catholocism.  Some of both denominations also convert to atheism - or
Judaism.  Numbers for each conversion do not indicate which is the one and
only true religion.  Truth is not dependent upon majority numbers of
adherents.
•  Good points.  However, I doubt that there are very many - if any - gay
Muslims who convert from a religion like Islam whose heaven/paradise
provides eternally youthful boys for the faithful to a religion that
condems homosexuality - like Christianity and Judaism.
"They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who to the
beholder¹s eyes will seem like sprinkled pearls.  When you gaze  upon that
scene, you will behold a kingdom blissful and glorious."
--- Qur'an 76:19    
 -- " ... young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls."  
-- Qur'an 52:20
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K,  805-386-3734              805-386-3734      ,www.somis.org
arah
2010-10-01 17:46:16 UTC
Permalink
I

Thank you for your sincere comment

On Sep 22, 10:01 am, "I"
Post by I
Post by arah
Please share with me if there is any prominent Islamic Scholar who
convert to Christianity.
There are converts to and from both Christianity and Islam (and between them
and other religions and lack of religion). Within Christianity there are
also changes - Catholics convert to Protestantism and Protestants convert to
Catholocism.  Some of both denominations also convert to atheism - or
Judaism.  Numbers for each conversion do not indicate which is the one and
only true religion.  Truth is not dependent upon majority numbers of
adherents.
Post by arah
Why are Christian priests and missionaries embracing Islam ?
My guess is that it is because Islam is truly monotheistic like Judaism.
Christianity claims to be monotheistic yet the majority of Christians
worship three gods - one of which is a human.  It is that human who
unfortunately takes precedence in all matters.  Some Christians (like
myself) view Jesus as a prophet and not God (as does Islam).  It is the One
God of Abraham that matters.  Egyptian Christians also call this One God
Al-Lah. It is that One God alone whom I worship as a Christian.
Post by arah
This is a tremendous challenge to Christian missionaries.
Indeed!  I have a friend who is a Christian clergyman who is currently
overseas trying to convert Moslems in a foreign country to Christianity -
without much success.  He would do better to learn from the many truths of
Islam and to read the Koran which has many truths and beautiful passages.
Tryhttp://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/which also has search capabilities
(if you do not own a personal copy of the Koran as I do).
Islam is NOT a religion of war and hatred but one of peace.  At one stage in
history Moslems led the world in science and philosophy.
It is the FUNDAMENTALISTS within both Islam and Christianity that give their
repective religions a bad name.
The Koran stresses peace and the unity of the One God of Abraham - the
father of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  In past times Jews, Christians
and Moslems lived in harmony together.  That is also possible today. They
are all "people of the book".
Most Christians are totally ignorant of the koran and have never read the
whole of their Bible let alone the Koran.  I have read both and find truth
in both. I have also found texts of hatred for the outsider in both the
Bible and Koran but one spits out the bad and tastes the good.
COEXIST
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