Discussion:
Whats Wrong with Vinces Theology
(too old to reply)
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 07:43:04 UTC
Permalink
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Martin Michael Musatov
2012-01-16 07:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
I read what is wrong with my theology and I saw it and it had the same
name of my dog I like in California. This man is God. I say G+d
forever!
Martin Michael Musatov
2012-01-16 07:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
So I say G+D forever, too!
vince garcia
2012-01-16 12:18:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
Vince
how did [Mary} do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam
It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Cbrist
Post by Sam Taylor
With the fact the messiah had a beard, that probubly means he was > married.
Jews are REQUIRED THE ! COMMANDMENTS
(the 10 Commandments)
and Teaching their Children of The Holy Days of YHWH
and HIS STATUTES!
( the Number is 57 not 613)
this is how Orthadox and Conservative, and Reform
can be all Considered JEWS iregardless of KOSHER
and other ways of observance.
To a Jew the Laws of Moses are seperated from the "LAW OF YHWH You
call the 10 Comandments
To us these [the 10] are the Basis of Our morality.
the others are Rules, not Commandments
All refuted by true Jew Rob Strom (whom sam called a "Xtian"!*), who
said: "Sam's view doesn't map to either traditional or Reform Judaism.
"
Post by Sam Taylor
* When Rob agrees with Your Doctrine of G-D he is INDEED a Xtian! and
NOT A JEW.
there is no reference to Communion being offered other than Passover
until the 6th Century...
the Communion offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.
Refuted by the first century didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Didascalia in the 3rd century mentioned it:

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there
be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation
[communion], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our
Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week
he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up
to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with
the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

It was WEEKLY OR DAILY for MANY, MANY years, including the years of the
sources I cited which mention it being taken EVERY SUNDAY! Pope Fabian
in the 200s even made it mandatory to receive communion AT LEAST--get
that, AT LEAST--THREE times a year...not 'ONCE a year and NO MORE' as
you are trying to claim. Even Augustine wrote about daily communion
being up to the individual.
Post by Sam Taylor
"Jesus means of Zues or Nike
Refuted by citing an article on the actual greek, comparing and showing
photos of ancient greek inscriptions proving this claim to be utterly
false
Post by Sam Taylor
Jews do NOT believe Man has a Soul!
You as a Xtian believe You have an ImortalSoul, and we believe We ARE a
mortal Soul We believe We Jews do Die, You believe You shed Your body
to life Soul Life forever either singing, or Screaming
Refuted by what REAL Jews say about the afterlife, compared to false
"jew," Sam taylor, who says they believe you're dead like a dog once
you're dead


Chabod.org: The soul is liberated from the body and returns closer to
her source than ever before.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2970/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-an-Afterlife.htm

Answers.com: After a Jew dies his soul goes to heaven where it is judged
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_an_afterlife#ixzz18hiVUYyy

Ask Rabbi Simmons: When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment
is not arbitrary and externally imposed.
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_afterlife.htm

Judaism 101: Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the
end of human existence.there is clear evidence in the Torah of belief in
existence after death.
http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Ask moses: Simply put, yes--but what we believe in might better be
called "life after life." According to Jewish belief, it is only the
body that dies, while the soul lives on into eternity.
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/614%2C223/Do-Jews-believe-in-an-after-life.html

wiki answers: According to Maimonides, an afterlife continues for the
soul of every human being, a soul now separated from the body in which
it was "housed" during its earthly existence.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_afterlife_do_Jewish_people_believe_in#ixzz18hkPK4eT

juicy jews: The short answer is YES, we do!
http://juicyjews.com/jewish-religious-questions/do-jews-believe-in-an-afterlife-or-heaven/

Jewish home lifecare: The “classic” Jewish belief is that when we die,
only the body dies, and the soul lives forever with God.
http://www.jewishhome.org/life-with-us/religious-and-spiritual-life-at-jewish-home/jewish-beliefs-and-traditions/death-and-afterlife


MORE SAM TAYLOR LIES...


You claimed that Nazi Skinheads broke into your shop in San Francisco
and beat you and your Jewish customers. (a lie)

You claimed that you filed and won a lawsuit against the American Nazi
Party (a lie quickly revealed by checking the record of lawsuits against
the ANP, which showed NO RECORD of one by a Sam Taylor)


He has been repeatedly exposed as a liar



So when Sam Taylor starts giving a lesson on the Greek langauge and how
that 'proves' essentials of the Christian faith are WRONG...I trust the
readers of his posts will treat it as it deserves to be treated
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 13:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Now vince,
Calm down, and think before you respond,
this is much more important than some gal,
in a small Minning Town in the west.
and the questions more deep, than is
She finds Happiness being married to an English Dude.
so no need to get uppity, and Persnickity, go eat a Breakfast Burrito, with
some salsa.

when did G-D spit in his Shoes?, when did Jesus spit
in his shoes?, or just who in the heck spit in there shoes?
if You cannot find that, You will be drummed, out of
the Knights of the Holy Triunists.
you will have to stop paying Your dues, and send Your cape, and suit of iron
to Duke,
and once again I will be big, You will be Small.
I will be Old, You will be Young, I will be right,
and You will be wrong
with my deep regards
Sam
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 18:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Now vince,
Calm down, and think before you respond,
this is much more important than some gal,
in a small Minning Town in the west.
and the questions more deep, than is
She finds Happiness being married to an English Dude.
so no need to get uppity, and Persnickity, go eat a Breakfast Burrito, with
some salsa.
when did G-D spit in his Shoes?, when did Jesus spit
in his shoes?, or just who in the heck spit in there shoes?
if You cannot find that, You will be drummed, out of
the Knights of the Holy Triunists."
you will have to stop paying Your dues, and send Your cape, and suit of iron
to Duke,
and once again I will be big, You will be Small.
I will be Old, You will be Young, I will be right,
and You will be wrong
with my deep regards
Sam
Sam's constant ridicule of others is disgusting and ungodly.

Pro 17:19 He loveth transgression that loveth strife: and he that
exalteth his gate seeketh destruction.
Pro 17:20 He that hath a froward heart findeth no good: and he that
hath a perverse tongue falleth into mischief.
Pro 17:21 He that begetteth a fool doeth it to his sorrow: and the
father of a fool hath no joy.
duke
2012-01-16 19:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
Vince
how did [Mary} do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam
It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Cbrist
It was written 100-300 years before, but Mary clearly never had a copy nor could
she read it. The only copy was in Alexandria.
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
the Communion offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.
Refuted by the first century didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, the early Christians were taking daily Holy Eucharist. Evidence of it
is in 1 Cor 11 and Acts 2:42.


duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
vince garcia
2012-01-16 20:10:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
Vince
how did [Mary} do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam
It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Cbrist
It was written 100-300 years before, but Mary clearly never had a copy nor could
she read it. The only copy was in Alexandria.
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
the Communion offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.
Refuted by the first century didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, the early Christians were taking daily Holy Eucharist. Evidence of it
is in 1 Cor 11 and Acts 2:42.
Yes. And obviously he rejects that too
Post by duke
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
randy
2012-01-16 16:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!

This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 17:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.
duke
2012-01-16 19:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh.
The triune Godhead existed before all time began 13.7 billion years ago. Jesus
is the 2n person of the Godhead.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 19:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh.
The triune Godhead existed before all time began 13.7 billion years ago.  Jesus
is the 2n person of the Godhead.
So are you claiming like Sam that Christ is a created spirit separate
from God who also "is a Spirit" (John 4:24)? I guess that would make
the Holy Spirit a third Spirit to you?
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 21:23:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
Can you concieve that it might not be Logical?
read My post carefully, and
slowly before You respond, in other words ACT, not REACT to My post
Here is what I posted

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh.
The triune Godhead existed before all time began 13.7 billion years ago.
Jesus
is the 2n person of the Godhead.
So are you claiming like Sam that Christ is a created spirit separate
from God who also "is a Spirit" (John 4:24)? I guess that would make
the Holy Spirit a third Spirit to you?
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
duke
2012-01-18 19:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
The triune Godhead existed before all time began 13.7 billion years ago.  Jesus
is the 2n person of the Godhead.
So are you claiming like Sam that Christ is a created spirit separate
from God who also "is a Spirit" (John 4:24)? I guess that would make
the Holy Spirit a third Spirit to you?
Linda, There is one God in 3 persons. God existed before all time began some
13.7 billion years ago and that obviously included all 3 persons.

God then became MAN in the person of the flesh called Jesus who also possessed
the divine nature that was never revealed until after the cross. And it was in
this way that flesh taught flesh the say to salvation thru obedience and love of
the Father. The divine Jesus was never even revealed when the Father raised the
flesh of Jesus back to life and then to the heavenly kingdom.

God is spirit. God is not flesh. Man showed man; flesh showed flesh.


duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 21:20:35 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh.
The triune Godhead existed before all time began 13.7 billion years ago.
Jesus
is the 2n person of the Godhead.
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 21:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by duke
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by duke
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh.
The triune Godhead existed before all time began 13.7 billion years ago.
Jesus
Post by duke
is the 2n person of the Godhead.
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 22:20:12 UTC
Permalink
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by duke
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.

Linda,
Your own creeds state "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yet now You are denying the very Creeds You say You believe in.
Or do You believe about Your apastolic creeds, and not in them?
Before his second birth He was exactly what the
composition of G-D "WAS", that does not make him G-D,
nor diety, but it does make him devine.
but neccesarily for redemption there must have been
a change, He then Humbled Himself and did not take upon Him the nature of
the Angelic beings, but BECAME FLESH
or did a flock just fly over your head?
sam
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by duke
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh.
The triune Godhead existed before all time began 13.7 billion years ago.
Jesus
Post by duke
is the 2n person of the Godhead.
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 22:31:32 UTC
Permalink
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Linda,
Your own creeds state  "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yes, he was "begotten" when he was born in the flesh; you claim he was
begotten (by which you mean created) as a spirit. You are hopelessly
confused.
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 22:55:07 UTC
Permalink
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Linda,
Your own creeds state "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yes, he was "begotten" when he was born in the flesh; you claim he was
begotten (by which you mean created) as a spirit. You are hopelessly
confused.

Linda,
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and brought
forth His son. and then with his son, and by his son brought forth all other
that came into
Existantce.
If You keep him "Eternally Prexistant" there is no
chance of him to exist in the Existence, therefore you are
really saying he never existed, because he is stuck before he could exist.
now this is where we may differ I believe that G-d is by his very Nature
above ours and is by nature both, and beyond the bonds we term as Male, and
Female,
and therefore can comprehend You as great as he does a man.
brought him forth by giving birth to him from his own being, with
no heavenly mother Required.
and No I don't believe he eternally exists, before he existed.
Sam
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 23:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology.
That
Post by Sam Taylor
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Linda,
Your own creeds state "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yes, he was "begotten" when he was born in the flesh; you claim he was
begotten (by which you mean created) as a spirit. You are hopelessly
confused.
Linda,
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and brought
forth His son.
Whom you said was "a son, of the same spiritual Composition as He is"
i.e. the Son was a spirit. And he was a spirit whom you claim God
never got back, so he, the son who was a spirit, has ceased to exist
or exists in Sheol. Your ideas are crap.

and then with his son, and by his son brought forth all other
Post by Linda Lee
that came into
Existantce.
If You keep him "Eternally Prexistant" there is no
chance of him to exist in the Existence, therefore you are
really saying he never existed, because he is stuck before he could exist.
now this is where we may differ I believe that G-d is by his very Nature
above ours and is by nature both, and beyond the bonds we term as Male, and
Female,
and therefore can comprehend You as great as he does a man.
brought him forth by giving birth to him from his own being, with
no heavenly mother Required.
and No I don't believe he eternally exists, before he existed.
Sam
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 00:09:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology.
That
Post by Sam Taylor
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Linda,
Your own creeds state "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yes, he was "begotten" when he was born in the flesh; you claim he was
begotten (by which you mean created) as a spirit. You are hopelessly
confused.
Linda,
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and brought
forth His son.
Whom you said was "a son, of the same spiritual Composition as He is"
i.e. the Son was a spirit. And he was a spirit whom you claim God
never got back, so he, the son who was a spirit, has ceased to exist
or exists in Sheol. Your ideas are crap.

linda, once again the translation of what you think I said,
and not what i said, nor even close to what i said, as You twist My thoughts
with your Ideas, rather than just understanding what I said in plain, and
simple english.
you have no reading comprehension do you?
Do Your suffer from ADD , and or AHDD?
not as an insult, but it can be a real problem for folks
I know you wouldn't be twisting them for your own gain,
as that would be Lying, and I know you hate liars.
did you know most liars hate other liars much more deeply than you do.
it's a fact, just like theives hate being stolen from, kind of Ironic isn't
it?.
so iam going to post my original post for your review one more Time

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam

I did that so you wouldn't have to translate what I have written
Sam
and then with his son, and by his son brought forth all other
Post by Linda Lee
that came into
Existantce.
If You keep him "Eternally Prexistant" there is no
chance of him to exist in the Existence, therefore you are
really saying he never existed, because he is stuck before he could exist.
now this is where we may differ I believe that G-d is by his very Nature
above ours and is by nature both, and beyond the bonds we term as Male, and
Female,
and therefore can comprehend You as great as he does a man.
brought him forth by giving birth to him from his own being, with
no heavenly mother Required.
and No I don't believe he eternally exists, before he existed.
Sam
Linda Lee
2012-01-17 00:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Linda Lee
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology.
That
Post by Sam Taylor
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being
the
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Linda,
Your own creeds state "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yes, he was "begotten" when he was born in the flesh; you claim he was
begotten (by which you mean created) as a spirit. You are hopelessly
confused.
Linda,
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and
brought
Post by Linda Lee
forth His son.
Whom you said was "a son, of the same spiritual Composition as He is"
i.e. the Son was a spirit. And he was a spirit whom you claim God
never got back, so he, the son who was a spirit, has ceased to exist
or exists in Sheol. Your ideas are crap.
linda, once again the translation of what you think I said,
and not what i said, nor even close to what i said, as You twist My thoughts
with your Ideas, rather than just understanding what I said in plain, and
simple english.
you have no reading comprehension do you?
Do Your suffer from ADD , and or AHDD?
not as an insult,
You're not a liar? Just yesterday you 'analyzed me', claiming you knew
I 'got good grades in school', but now you're claiming you are not
trying to insult me by claiming I have "ADD, and or AHDD" (actually I
think that's ADHD, Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), which
are learning disabilities and most people with them don't do well in
school. Obviously you're lying, and you are in fact just trying to
insult me.

Are you sure you haven't been diagnosed with ADHD? They tend to have
difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others;
it would explain the condition of the sentences in your posts and
possibly your misinterpretations of the Scriptures.
Post by Sam Taylor
but it can be a real problem for folks
I know you wouldn't be twisting them for your own gain,
as that would be Lying, and I know you hate liars.
did you know most liars hate other liars much more deeply than you do.
You should know. Probably you would really hate your own techniques
being used against you. I can see that.

God hates a liar. Does that make God a liar, too?
Post by Sam Taylor
it's a fact, just like theives hate being stolen from, kind of Ironic isn't
it?.
so iam going to post my original post for your review one more Time
vince garcia
2012-01-17 11:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Linda Lee
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology.
That
Post by Sam Taylor
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being
the
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Linda,
Your own creeds state "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yes, he was "begotten" when he was born in the flesh; you claim he was
begotten (by which you mean created) as a spirit. You are hopelessly
confused.
Linda,
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and
brought
Post by Linda Lee
forth His son.
Whom you said was "a son, of the same spiritual Composition as He is"
i.e. the Son was a spirit. And he was a spirit whom you claim God
never got back, so he, the son who was a spirit, has ceased to exist
or exists in Sheol. Your ideas are crap.
linda, once again the translation of what you think I said,
and not what i said, nor even close to what i said, as You twist My thoughts
with your Ideas, rather than just understanding what I said in plain, and
simple english.
you have no reading comprehension do you?
Do Your suffer from ADD , and or AHDD?
not as an insult,
You're not a liar? Just yesterday you 'analyzed me', claiming you knew
I 'got good grades in school', but now you're claiming you are not
trying to insult me by claiming I have "ADD, and or AHDD" (actually I
think that's ADHD, Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), which
are learning disabilities and most people with them don't do well in
school. Obviously you're lying, and you are in fact just trying to
insult me.
Are you sure you haven't been diagnosed with ADHD? They tend to have
difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others;
it would explain the condition of the sentences in your posts and
possibly your misinterpretations of the Scriptures.
lol.


"You really say odd, suspicious things. And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee
Linda Lee
2012-01-17 13:32:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Linda Lee
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology.
That
Post by Sam Taylor
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being
the
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Linda,
Your own creeds state "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yes, he was "begotten" when he was born in the flesh; you claim he was
begotten (by which you mean created) as a spirit. You are hopelessly
confused.
Linda,
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and
brought
Post by Linda Lee
forth His son.
Whom you said was "a son, of the same spiritual Composition as He is"
i.e. the Son was a spirit. And he was a spirit whom you claim God
never got back, so he, the son who was a spirit, has ceased to exist
or exists in Sheol. Your ideas are crap.
linda, once again the translation of what you think I said,
and not what i said, nor even close to what i said, as You twist My thoughts
with your Ideas, rather than just understanding what I said in plain, and
simple english.
you have no reading comprehension do you?
Do Your suffer from ADD , and or AHDD?
not as an insult,
You're not a liar? Just yesterday you 'analyzed me', claiming you knew
I 'got good grades in school', but now you're claiming you are not
trying to insult me by claiming I have "ADD, and or AHDD" (actually I
think that's ADHD, Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), which
are learning disabilities and most people with them don't do well in
school. Obviously you're lying, and you are in fact just trying to
insult me.
Are you sure you haven't been diagnosed with ADHD? They tend to have
difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others;
it would explain the condition of the sentences in your posts and
possibly your misinterpretations of the Scriptures.
lol.
"You really say odd, suspicious things.  And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee
Speaking of odd, have you deciphered Sam's post above wherein he
claims that God "begot" (i.e. created) the Son of God as a spirit, and
then claims that 'God NEVER got his Son back' after the sacrifice at
the
crucifixion?

By saying those two things, he's claiming the Messiah never
resurrected and that the spirit of the Messiah (God's Son) never
ascended back into Heaven (because 'God never got his Son back'), and
didn't join with God to sit on a single throne and to become one face
and one name (as Rev. 22:3-4 indicates).

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as
crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the
river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits,
and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for
the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the THRONE OF GOD AND
OF THE LAMB shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see HIS FACE; and HIS NAME shall be in their
foreheads.
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 15:55:28 UTC
Permalink
Jan 2012
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Linda Lee
09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology.
That
Post by Sam Taylor
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
Now ponder that, You cannot exist before you exist
if You are eternally prexistant.
Its a simple Logical truth,
you guys repond without reading
now read it completely and carefully
as here is the Original post
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being
the
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Begotten refers to creation through the flesh. YOU claim that God
"begot" Christ as a spirit before Christ was ever born in the flesh,
and your use of "begot" is therefore no different than saying God
created Christ as a spirit, which is BUNK.
Linda,
Your own creeds state "he was begotten NOT Created"
Yes, he was "begotten" when he was born in the flesh; you claim he was
begotten (by which you mean created) as a spirit. You are hopelessly
confused.
Linda,
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and
brought
Post by Linda Lee
forth His son.
Whom you said was "a son, of the same spiritual Composition as He is"
i.e. the Son was a spirit. And he was a spirit whom you claim God
never got back, so he, the son who was a spirit, has ceased to exist
or exists in Sheol. Your ideas are crap.
linda, once again the translation of what you think I said,
and not what i said, nor even close to what i said, as You twist My thoughts
with your Ideas, rather than just understanding what I said in plain, and
simple english.
you have no reading comprehension do you?
Do Your suffer from ADD , and or AHDD?
not as an insult,
You're not a liar? Just yesterday you 'analyzed me', claiming you knew
I 'got good grades in school', but now you're claiming you are not
trying to insult me by claiming I have "ADD, and or AHDD" (actually I
think that's ADHD, Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), which
are learning disabilities and most people with them don't do well in
school. Obviously you're lying, and you are in fact just trying to
insult me.
Are you sure you haven't been diagnosed with ADHD? They tend to have
difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others;
it would explain the condition of the sentences in your posts and
possibly your misinterpretations of the Scriptures.
lol.
"You really say odd, suspicious things. And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee
Speaking of odd, have you deciphered Sam's post above wherein he
claims that God "begot" (i.e. created) the Son of God as a spirit, and
then claims that 'God NEVER got his Son back' after the sacrifice at
the
crucifixion?

vince,
you too are translating what I said, because You believe that when G-d gave
His Son was on the Cross making G-D his Killer, and not Man.
when g-D provided the sacraficial Lamb, who did the Killing? it was NOT G-D.
for when G-D gave his Son, was when He allowed Him to BECOME Flesh, that is
when G-D gave His Son.
and what Flesh did He this Second adam Become.
Adam the Male Just before He sinned.
He was tempted in every way that we are, IF He was G-D, or even half G-D he
could not have been Tempted.
For G-D cannot be Tempted, nor tempts He any Man.
He Could resist Temptation by the same Ruach Kodash
that was Original Breathed Into the Man.
It was G-d in Him the hope of Glory, as it is christ in Us
the Hope of Glory, He could not have gotten his Son
Back, as he actually Gave Him, as an eternal gift,
not a temporary Gift, but an Eternal gift.
We Killed Him, not G-D, and He got back the flesh aned Bone second adam, who
after that Presentation,
Became the New Creation.
you are Argueing G-D leased out, or Loaned out His
son when in fact He really meant Give.
G-D didn't fool us or welch on the Gift, He Gave,
and the Son gladly laid Down his life, for Us,
so we would also present Our bodies Holy and acceptable unto G-D through
him, as that is Our Reasonable service.
We crucify Ourselves so Christ in Us the Hope of Glory Might Live.
Just so You dont get confused, and or translate My words
Here is what I wrote.
read it carefully
With best regards
Sam

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam


By saying those two things, he's claiming the Messiah never
resurrected and that the spirit of the Messiah (God's Son) never
ascended back into Heaven (because 'God never got his Son back'), and
didn't join with God to sit on a single throne and to become one face
and one name (as Rev. 22:3-4 indicates).

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as
crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the
river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits,
and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for
the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the THRONE OF GOD AND
OF THE LAMB shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see HIS FACE; and HIS NAME shall be in their
foreheads.
Anathema
2012-01-17 01:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Wrong againBegotten...
Your ideas are crap.
And you are a habitually lazy poster.

Which probably speaks volumes in itself.
vince garcia
2012-01-17 00:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and brought
forth His son. and then with his son, and by his son brought forth all other
that came into
Existantce.
That's called a CREATED BEING.

That's damnable heresy
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 01:12:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and brought
forth His son. and then with his son, and by his son brought forth all other
that came into
Existantce.
That's called a CREATED BEING.
That's damnable heresy
no that iscalled as Your creeds say
"Begotten not Created"
vince, both You and l9inda are not reading my words but translating them
into what you concieve I am saying
so let Me post again what I did post in Plain english,
so you won't have to translate into fresnoese, or
spanglish
Here it is

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 02:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D",
So you believe G-d himself is stuck in the before he ever existed.
so in fact you believe that G-D himself doesn't even exist.
is the holy ghost also stuck in the prexistence?
So G-D Cannot exist, Jesus cannot exist, and the Holy ghost cannot exist?
for the three of the holy heavenly siamese tripplettes
are stuck in the before they ever existed.
so did I get here by evolution?
did My great to infinitum grand daddy crawl out of the premordial ooze, to
stand up hunkerin for a Bannana?,
or am I a figment of your Imagination?
if so you should at least try to imagine better for Me,
maybe something like this.

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam

then you and I could actually like each other.
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Wrong againBegotten (by which I believe that before
anything else existed G-D gave birth to him from his own being) and brought
forth His son. and then with his son, and by his son brought forth all other
that came into
Existantce.
That's called a CREATED BEING.
That's damnable heresy
vince garcia
2012-01-17 11:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D",
It's "horse shit" to teach Jesus was eternally pre-existent with the
Father?

Statement speaks for itself
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 16:05:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D",
It's "horse shit" to teach Jesus was eternally pre-existent with the
Father?
Statement speaks for itself
Read my lips boys and girls!
he had to Exist to Exist, if He is Eternally Prexistant
He cannot exist in the Existence.
so you are Saying that they both never Existed in the Existence.
therefore Logicly You are saying it's a figment of Our
combined imagination, like that lil Gal from the Minning Town in the west,
trying to find Happiness being Married to a rich English Dude.
So he is forever in the Before He existed,
Therefore He never was.
Now Vince,
in a land that was, and a land that is There was a was,
from the Is that Is, whom said to all whom would Listen.
It is better to be an Is that Is, than a was that Was, but it's
better to be a Was that Was than a never Was at All.

You failed to read it fully through, So allow mt to repost it For You, to
just Read it Slowly

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
vince garcia
2012-01-17 16:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D",
It's "horse shit" to teach Jesus was eternally pre-existent with the
Father?
Statement speaks for itself
Read my lips boys and girls!
he had to Exist to Exist, if He is Eternally Prexistant
He cannot exist in the Existence.
so you are Saying that they both never Existed in the Existence.
therefore Logicly You are saying it's a figment of Our
combined imagination, like that lil Gal from the Minning Town in the west,
trying to find Happiness being Married to a rich English Dude.
So he is forever in the Before He existed,
Therefore He never was.
Now Vince,
in a land that was, and a land that is There was a was,
from the Is that Is, whom said to all whom would Listen.
It is better to be an Is that Is, than a was that Was, but it's
better to be a Was that Was than a never Was at All.
You failed to read it fully through, So allow mt to repost it For You, to
just Read it Slowly
dude--we've all read it before. Nothing new. You have a gross
misunderstanding of the Bible, and think since God "begot" jesus, that
means that Jesus didn't exist before God brought Him out of Himself,
then Jesus became the agent of further creation.

That's basically Jehovah's Witness theology


It's all demonic heresy.




You are not allowed to believe that and be a member of the Christian
faith

Thne you indictaed it was "horseshit" to believe in the eternal
co-excistence of Christ with God, being fully God Himse;f
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 17:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D",
It's "horse shit" to teach Jesus was eternally pre-existent with the
Father?
Statement speaks for itself
Read my lips boys and girls!
he had to Exist to Exist, if He is Eternally Prexistant
He cannot exist in the Existence.
so you are Saying that they both never Existed in the Existence.
therefore Logicly You are saying it's a figment of Our
combined imagination, like that lil Gal from the Minning Town in the west,
trying to find Happiness being Married to a rich English Dude.
So he is forever in the Before He existed,
Therefore He never was.
Now Vince,
in a land that was, and a land that is There was a was,
from the Is that Is, whom said to all whom would Listen.
It is better to be an Is that Is, than a was that Was, but it's
better to be a Was that Was than a never Was at All.
You failed to read it fully through, So allow mt to repost it For You, to
just Read it Slowly
dude--we've all read it before. Nothing new. You have a gross
misunderstanding of the Bible, and think since God "begot" jesus, that
means that Jesus didn't exist before God brought Him out of Himself,
then Jesus became the agent of further creation.
That's basically Jehovah's Witness theology
WRONG!!!
they actually Believe Jesus is michael the archangel,
and NOT the Only Begooten son of G-D.
Since You have a problem trying to figure out
exactly what I believe without putting your own ideas in it,
let Me repost it for you, as you will find no reference to Gabriel, and or
Michael, and or Raphael.
where in the hack did Raphael come from anyway?
out of mans Imaginations?
So Here it is this is what I believe

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam

with deep regards
sam
Post by vince garcia
It's all demonic heresy.
You are not allowed to believe that and be a member of the Christian
faith
Thne you indictaed it was "horseshit" to believe in the eternal
co-excistence of Christ with God, being fully God Himse;f
vince garcia
2012-01-17 17:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D",
It's "horse shit" to teach Jesus was eternally pre-existent with the
Father?
Statement speaks for itself
Read my lips boys and girls!
he had to Exist to Exist, if He is Eternally Prexistant
He cannot exist in the Existence.
so you are Saying that they both never Existed in the Existence.
therefore Logicly You are saying it's a figment of Our
combined imagination, like that lil Gal from the Minning Town in the
west,
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
trying to find Happiness being Married to a rich English Dude.
So he is forever in the Before He existed,
Therefore He never was.
Now Vince,
in a land that was, and a land that is There was a was,
from the Is that Is, whom said to all whom would Listen.
It is better to be an Is that Is, than a was that Was, but it's
better to be a Was that Was than a never Was at All.
You failed to read it fully through, So allow mt to repost it For You,
to
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
just Read it Slowly
dude--we've all read it before. Nothing new. You have a gross
misunderstanding of the Bible, and think since God "begot" jesus, that
means that Jesus didn't exist before God brought Him out of Himself,
then Jesus became the agent of further creation.
That's basically Jehovah's Witness theology
WRONG!!!
they actually Believe Jesus is michael the archangel,
and NOT the Only Begooten son of G-D.
Of course they believe He is the begotten son of God.

And yes, they think He is Michael, captain of the LORD's host.

Same basic notion as you teach but for you not calling Him Michael

Point is, their heretical view of the non-deity Christ is basically the
same as yours from what I can tell. The Michael thing is no big
difference
Post by Sam Taylor
Since You have a problem trying to figure out
exactly what I believe without putting your own ideas in it,
let Me repost it for you, as you will find no reference to Gabriel, and or
Michael, and or Raphael.
where in the hack did Raphael come from anyway?
out of mans Imaginations?
So Here it is this is what I believe
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
with deep regards
sam
Post by vince garcia
It's all demonic heresy.
You are not allowed to believe that and be a member of the Christian
faith
Thne you indictaed it was "horseshit" to believe in the eternal
co-excistence of Christ with God, being fully God Himse;f
Anathema
2012-01-17 17:55:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Point is, their heretical view of the non-deity Christ is
basically the same as yours from what I can tell. The
Michael thing is no big difference
Actually Vince, there is a *HUGE* difference with
regard to that.
vince garcia
2012-01-17 18:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anathema
Post by vince garcia
Point is, their heretical view of the non-deity Christ is
basically the same as yours from what I can tell. The
Michael thing is no big difference
Actually Vince, there is a *HUGE* difference with
regard to that.
how is there a big difference between sam's christ and that of the jws?
Anathema
2012-01-17 20:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Anathema
Post by vince garcia
Point is, their heretical view of the non-deity Christ is
basically the same as yours from what I can tell. The
Michael thing is no big difference
Actually Vince, there is a *HUGE* difference with
regard to that.
how is there a big difference between sam's christ and
that of the jws?
My apologies. There is a *huge* difference between Sam's
beliefs, and that of the JW's / SDA's.

Sam believes and follows YHVH. Sam further understands
that Christ was the firstborn of all creation. Thus, before
*everything* accept YHVH Himself.
vince garcia
2012-01-17 20:21:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anathema
Post by vince garcia
Post by Anathema
Post by vince garcia
Point is, their heretical view of the non-deity Christ is
basically the same as yours from what I can tell. The
Michael thing is no big difference
Actually Vince, there is a *HUGE* difference with
regard to that.
how is there a big difference between sam's christ and
that of the jws?
My apologies. There is a *huge* difference between Sam's
beliefs, and that of the JW's / SDA's.
Sam believes and follows YHVH. Sam further understands
that Christ was the firstborn of all creation. Thus, before
*everything* accept YHVH Himself.
JWs would have a different view? Isn't Jehovah their big thing like YHWH
is to sam?
Anathema
2012-01-17 21:00:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Anathema
My apologies. There is a *huge* difference between
Sam's beliefs, and that of the JW's / SDA's.
Sam believes and follows YHVH. Sam further understands
that Christ was the firstborn of all creation. Thus, before
*everything* accept YHVH Himself.
JWs would have a different view?
Indeed. And JW's observe that they call the "greater shabat",
which is Sunday. I have seen nothing in Sam which reminds
me of a JW teaching.
Post by vince garcia
Isn't Jehovah their big thing like YHWH
is to sam?
If you understood the meaning of the word "Jehovah",
you would also perhaps begin to understand what
YHVH means to Sam.

For they are not the same.
j***@satx.rr.com
2012-01-17 21:43:14 UTC
Permalink
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/The%20Many%20Names%20of%20God.htm

But what does the Tetragrammaton YHWH mean? Biblical scholars have
been arguing about the meaning of YHWH for centuries. Since biblical
names generally have a discernible meaning, scholars have believed
that YHWH can be reasonably translated. Based on etymology and
context most scholars have agreed that YHWH is an archaic form of the
verb "to be" (in Hebrew hawah) and should be translated "I am who I am
or I will be who I will be." This meaning contextually fits the
passages in Exodus 3:13-15a: Moses then said to God [Elohim], 'Look,
if I go to the Israelites and say to me, "What is his name?" what am I
to tell them?' God [Elohim] said to Moses, 'I am [YHWH] he who is.'
And he said, 'This is what you are to say to the Israelites I am
[YHWH] has sent me to you...', which agrees with Exodus 3:6: I am the
God of your ancestors ..., and Jesus' "I AM" statements in the fourth
Gospel i.e.: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I AM
(John 8:58).
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 22:20:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/The%20Many%20Names%20of%20God.htm
But what does the Tetragrammaton YHWH mean? Biblical scholars have
been arguing about the meaning of YHWH for centuries. Since biblical
names generally have a discernible meaning, scholars have believed
that YHWH can be reasonably translated. Based on etymology and
context most scholars have agreed that YHWH is an archaic form of the
verb "to be" (in Hebrew hawah) and should be translated "I am who I am
or I will be who I will be." This meaning contextually fits the
passages in Exodus 3:13-15a: Moses then said to God [Elohim], 'Look,
if I go to the Israelites and say to me, "What is his name?" what am I
to tell them?' God [Elohim] said to Moses, 'I am [YHWH] he who is.'
And he said, 'This is what you are to say to the Israelites I am
[YHWH] has sent me to you...', which agrees with Exodus 3:6: I am the
God of your ancestors ..., and Jesus' "I AM" statements in the fourth
Gospel i.e.: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I AM
(John 8:58).
actually it Means WAS, IS, Will Be
or He who Was, and Is, and will be,
or Eternal.
Sam
Πέτρος σι.
2012-01-17 23:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/The%20Many%20Names%20of%20God.htm
But what does the Tetragrammaton YHWH mean? Biblical scholars have
been arguing about the meaning of YHWH for centuries. Since biblical
names generally have a discernible meaning, scholars have believed
that YHWH can be reasonably translated. Based on etymology and
context most scholars have agreed that YHWH is an archaic form of the
verb "to be" (in Hebrew hawah) and should be translated "I am who I am
or I will be who I will be." This meaning contextually fits the
passages in Exodus 3:13-15a: Moses then said to God [Elohim], 'Look,
if I go to the Israelites and say to me, "What is his name?" what am I
to tell them?' God [Elohim] said to Moses, 'I am [YHWH] he who is.'
And he said, 'This is what you are to say to the Israelites I am
[YHWH] has sent me to you...', which agrees with Exodus 3:6: I am the
God of your ancestors ..., and Jesus' "I AM" statements in the fourth
Gospel i.e.: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I AM
(John 8:58).
And Jesus did not lightly say this, He used a dbl Verity, signaling Listen
up you, listen good this is a fixed truth you can hang your hat and
salvation on....
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before
Abraham was, I am.
Mordecai
2012-01-18 00:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/The%20Many%20Names%20of%20God.htm
But what does the Tetragrammaton YHWH mean? Biblical scholars have
been arguing about the meaning of YHWH for centuries. Since biblical
names generally have a discernible meaning, scholars have believed
that YHWH can be reasonably translated. Based on etymology and
context most scholars have agreed that YHWH is an archaic form of the
verb "to be" (in Hebrew hawah) and should be translated "I am who I am
or I will be who I will be." This meaning contextually fits the
passages in Exodus 3:13-15a: Moses then said to God [Elohim], 'Look,
if I go to the Israelites and say to me, "What is his name?" what am I
to tell them?' God [Elohim] said to Moses, 'I am [YHWH] he who is.'
And he said, 'This is what you are to say to the Israelites I am
[YHWH] has sent me to you...', which agrees with Exodus 3:6: I am the
God of your ancestors ..., and Jesus' "I AM" statements in the fourth
Gospel i.e.: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I AM
(John 8:58).
Try asking any Jewish scholar ... it is not a secret. There is no
"dispute."

Ergo "Biblical scholars" is correctly translated as "Christians who are
trying to reinterpret Jewish ideas to fit into the christian doctrine of
Trinity."

One of the differences between truth ... and "other" is that truth cannot
be altered.
You can deny it - preach against is - bash it, examine it, deny it, throw a
bomb at it - and even burn it up in a nova ... and it is not altered,
changed or modified.

However perceptions, deceptions, lies and falsehoods are susceptible to
manipulation and also fears "the light" which exposes them as false.

Don't talk this to me.
I love truth. I can change my entire world (and have done so) - because
truth is worth it.

You are cursed.
Here is the curse you are cursed with - you saw the truth and you chose
darkness.
Who cursed you? Yourself.
Can you be redeemed from your own curse? Oh yes - choose truth.
But nobody can do it for you.

I do not mind you choosing darkness - sad yes, but not upset. Many people
choose this path.
But I do object when you shove this "pile of shit" into my face.

How many sites did you go to - all telling you "the opposite" before you
found this excuse?
Don't bother to tell me - the truth is out there and is EASY to find - so
not finding it was a deliberate and wilful action.

Do you think that if i can see - that the most high is ignorant?
You have not chosen truth - and have turned from it.
And ... there are consequences.

And all of this ... is ** not to defend trinity ** but to defend the USAGE
of the "I AM verses which were used to prove this doctrine.

If I presented John 66:6 as a proof of Trinity (Yes ... 666) and it was a
false interpretation - it has no effect on Trinity, or on John 66:6 or upon
truth.
But if you defend John 66:6 knowing it is wrong ... then you demand to
believe a lie - which means that you do not really BELIEVE in Trinity.

If Trinity is true, it needs no defence. It cannot be shaken.
But as you have chosen lies to JUSTIFY what you believe - then you do not
really believe but are forcing yourself and others to comply.

These are the techniques I used to find ** my own motivation ** and to beat
myself up and to cause me to choose truth.
If I have to lie, then truth is not in me.

And as I was good at self deception - I can spot it in others.
Truth set me free. I follow truth no matter the price.

I can see in you what I see in myself - a desire for self deception.

I speak to you as I speak to myself - CHOOSE TRUTH.
Wherever it leads you - whatever you see - follow truth. EVEN if you are
wrong, ther eis no censure for SEEKING truth, even if you fail int he
attempt.
If you have to "defend" your ideas - then you lack truth. If you discuss
them - fine. Defend them? No. Truth needs no defence.

If you are in any doubt ... try bashing your ideas with a sledge hammer - a
pile driver, a nuke.
Truth will remain.
You ** cannot ** destroy truth.
--
Mordecai!

When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
Anathema
2012-01-18 02:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mordecai
But I do object when you shove this "pile of shit" into
my face.
<chuckle> Why don't you tell him how you really feel?

I do understand Mordecai.
pyotr filipivich
2012-01-18 05:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> on Wed, 18 Jan
2012 11:11:11 +1030 typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the
Post by Mordecai
I can see in you what I see in myself - a desire for self deception.
I speak to you as I speak to myself - CHOOSE TRUTH.
Wherever it leads you - whatever you see - follow truth. EVEN if you are
wrong, ther eis no censure for SEEKING truth, even if you fail int he
attempt.
If you have to "defend" your ideas - then you lack truth. If you discuss
them - fine. Defend them? No. Truth needs no defence.
If you are in any doubt ... try bashing your ideas with a sledge hammer - a
pile driver, a nuke.
Truth will remain.
You ** cannot ** destroy truth.
You know, when Mordecai hammers someone - it is so educational.

Even if he shoots down pet ideas of my own, at least he does it
directly, and in a way that makes me think "Not necessarily what I
wanted to hear, but obviously something I needed to hear."

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."
Mordecai
2012-01-18 06:21:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by pyotr filipivich
2012 11:11:11 +1030 typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the
Post by Mordecai
I can see in you what I see in myself - a desire for self deception.
I speak to you as I speak to myself - CHOOSE TRUTH.
Wherever it leads you - whatever you see - follow truth. EVEN if you are
wrong, ther eis no censure for SEEKING truth, even if you fail int he
attempt.
If you have to "defend" your ideas - then you lack truth. If you discuss
them - fine. Defend them? No. Truth needs no defence.
If you are in any doubt ... try bashing your ideas with a sledge hammer - a
pile driver, a nuke.
Truth will remain.
You ** cannot ** destroy truth.
You know, when Mordecai hammers someone - it is so educational.
Even if he shoots down pet ideas of my own, at least he does it
directly, and in a way that makes me think "Not necessarily what I
wanted to hear, but obviously something I needed to hear."
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."
Thanks ...

Do remember, I have shot down my own pet ideas.
The only thing I have found about the process is that when "what I know" is
removed and I look again, what I see is always GREATER than the thing I
lost.
--
Mordecai!

When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
r m
2012-01-18 08:00:20 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 18, 5:21 pm, Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont
Post by Mordecai
2012 11:11:11 +1030 typed in alt.christnet.christianlife  the
Post by Mordecai
I can see in you what I see in myself - a desire for self deception.
I speak to you as I speak to myself - CHOOSE TRUTH.
Wherever it leads you - whatever you see - follow truth. EVEN if you are
wrong, ther eis no censure for SEEKING truth, even if you fail int he
attempt.
If you have to "defend" your ideas - then you lack truth. If you discuss
them - fine. Defend them? No. Truth needs no defence.
If you are in any doubt ... try bashing your ideas with a sledge hammer - a
pile driver, a nuke.
Truth will remain.
You ** cannot ** destroy truth.
        You know, when Mordecai hammers someone - it is so educational.
        Even if he shoots down pet ideas of my own, at least he does it
directly, and in a way that makes me think "Not necessarily what I
wanted to hear, but obviously something I needed to hear."
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out.  The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."
Thanks ...
Do remember, I have shot down my own pet ideas.
The only thing I have found about the process is that when "what I know" is
removed and I look again, what I see is always GREATER than the thing I
lost.
[ I must admit I appreciate your inputs which often leaves me
speechless :-) ]
Post by Mordecai
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
pyotr filipivich
2012-01-18 19:06:59 UTC
Permalink
Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> on Wed, 18 Jan
2012 16:51:47 +1030 typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the
Post by Mordecai
Post by pyotr filipivich
2012 11:11:11 +1030 typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the
Post by Mordecai
I can see in you what I see in myself - a desire for self deception.
I speak to you as I speak to myself - CHOOSE TRUTH.
Wherever it leads you - whatever you see - follow truth. EVEN if you are
wrong, ther eis no censure for SEEKING truth, even if you fail int he
attempt.
If you have to "defend" your ideas - then you lack truth. If you discuss
them - fine. Defend them? No. Truth needs no defence.
If you are in any doubt ... try bashing your ideas with a sledge hammer - a
pile driver, a nuke.
Truth will remain.
You ** cannot ** destroy truth.
You know, when Mordecai hammers someone - it is so educational.
Even if he shoots down pet ideas of my own, at least he does it
directly, and in a way that makes me think "Not necessarily what I
wanted to hear, but obviously something I needed to hear."
Thanks ...
Do remember, I have shot down my own pet ideas.
The only thing I have found about the process is that when "what I know" is
removed and I look again, what I see is always GREATER than the thing I
lost.
Clarity is better than agreement (Why yes, I am listening to
Dennis Prager...)

I also believe that it is possible to confront someone's ideas
without attacking them personally.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."
Mordecai
2012-01-18 22:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by pyotr filipivich
2012 16:51:47 +1030 typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the
Post by Mordecai
Post by pyotr filipivich
2012 11:11:11 +1030 typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the
Post by Mordecai
I can see in you what I see in myself - a desire for self deception.
I speak to you as I speak to myself - CHOOSE TRUTH.
Wherever it leads you - whatever you see - follow truth. EVEN if you are
wrong, ther eis no censure for SEEKING truth, even if you fail int he
attempt.
If you have to "defend" your ideas - then you lack truth. If you discuss
them - fine. Defend them? No. Truth needs no defence.
If you are in any doubt ... try bashing your ideas with a sledge hammer - a
pile driver, a nuke.
Truth will remain.
You ** cannot ** destroy truth.
You know, when Mordecai hammers someone - it is so educational.
Even if he shoots down pet ideas of my own, at least he does it
directly, and in a way that makes me think "Not necessarily what I
wanted to hear, but obviously something I needed to hear."
Thanks ...
Do remember, I have shot down my own pet ideas.
The only thing I have found about the process is that when "what I know" is
removed and I look again, what I see is always GREATER than the thing I
lost.
Clarity is better than agreement (Why yes, I am listening to
Dennis Prager...)
I also believe that it is possible to confront someone's ideas
without attacking them personally.
In some cases, I do not see how.

Trinity is predicated upon a definition of the word G_d.
Change the definition, and trinity does not work.
BUT ... the definition of G_d is derived from language ... and language is
derived from deeper things.

With jews, it reflects the words of introduction for he wrote upon our
hearts "You are my people, I am your G_d" except in words of the heart so
that the english here is NOT the concepts. For example the words "You" and
the words "Your" do not apply the INDIVIDUAL ...but to the people and each
individual jew can choose to join and become a part of the people, in which
case the other words "also" apply to themselves. or not in which case they
are not included.
But even so, we all know our G_d.

gentiles do not. They are NOT lesser, just because G_d has not chosen to
introduce himself.
And because they have not been introduced and still desire this "G_d
thingy" they ask "what is it? and thus define a G_d as a what.
Which is why most of the languages of the earth approach G_d from afar.

And G_d not only understands, he accepts.
And when a gentile becomes devout, and converts to a jew, a muslim, a
Christian, a Buddhist ... he does not introduce himself except in very rare
circumstances. Even then, he does not tell them who he is.
You see the example of Abraham - he was not told the name of our G_d even
though he won a great blessing.

So your forefathers ... explained G_d to the gentiles in their language -
and how to fit things together. And in eagerness to learn, you learned who
and what he was and the great mystery.
The only problem is that it is not the language of the bible and you are
reading a book written in another language which uses terms different to
yourself.

You cannot see what is written because your language is like a green tinted
set of glasses. It filters out ... lots of details. Change your glasses
(language) and you will see something different.

I came along and threatened Jim.
What was the threat?
"If Trinity is wrong ... then I/you do not know who my/your G_d is - how to
approach, how to discuss, my/your entire life is threatened - my/your
eternal soul is threatened, my/your salvation is in doubt ... "

The threat is REAL. It is on the emotional level so it cannot be discussed
in words. it is nebulous so it cannot be grasped. it is insistent so it
discomforts ... and all he knows is he is threatened because Trinity is in
doubt.

I cannot stop that. It is a genuine threat. But when you take it out of the
closet and discuss it - you find the threat is "unreal." G_d accepts you as
you understand him, change the understanding and he accepts you. Do not
change your understanding and he accepts you.

None the less, the fear people have is very real, even though their worst
fears ... even their lightest of fears will never be realized.
You have been talking to Fred and Joe all your lives and someone tells you
something so that your understanding of Fred and Joe changes to the extent
you do not know them. And you have to introduce yourself and start over.

Jim's perspective - real threat.
G-ds perspective - ... Jim's problem, he will be there regardless.
Outsider looking in - no threat.
And even AFTER explanation - Jim and others will still see a very, very
real threat. Because from their POV, it IS a real threat. EVEN after it is
exposed ... even after they can assure themselves that their fears are
groundless.

In the emotional realm (not the intellectual) I have deliberately attacked
the relationship Jim has with G_d and threatened it.
You cannot get more personal than that.

From my POV - I have no desire to change Jim, or any other person for that
matter.
I can see his POV, G_d's POV, and it is a NULL. You want to walk over here?
OK. You want to remain over there? OK. BIIIIIGGG DEAL.

The problem is that new ideas threaten us. They change the way we perceive
the universe.
It does not matter the size of the new idea ... it is always a threat. The
degree of the threat is the degree to which we respond emotionally.
When the world changed from a flat earth into a ball - threat.
When we changed into an evolved being ... threat.
When someone invented a bellows and we had a picture for "lungs" and thus
could treat things like drowning ... threat.

I have chosen THIS idea because the potential threat is so large.
We are asked to change our picture of the universe. The new universe is
"unknown" and it might contain a threat.

But the sun still rises in the east and sets in the west.
And there is no change to the real world, only our perception.

or in the words of another culture

Before enlightenment, chop wood and draw water.
After enlightenment, chop wood and draw water.


Can you discuss a person's ideas without attacking them personally?
The only one I have seen do it successfully is JC.

A scribe came to him asking to record his words.
And JC replied "the foxes have their holes and the birds of the air, their
nests but the son of man has no where to lay his head.

The scribes expectations were for steady food and shelter.
If he decided to follow, these expectations would not be met. Ergo he would
begin the journey with expectations, meet difficulties and leave in anger,
sorrow and frustration.
However, if he knows in advance the cost and chooses to come, he would
begin the task he set for himself ... and end the task.

JC did not say "yes" and did not say "no" and did not discuss the issue ...
and so the ego of the scribe was left aside. Merely the cost of the
journey - and the rest was left to the scribe - forced to choose - it is a
masterful psychological ploy to force the scribe to ask himself is he
"really" desired to follow ...but free in his choice to follow or not,
without censure either way.

I am not a master psychologist.
So I confront even when I do not desire to do so.
I threaten - even when I do not desire to do so.
I am biased towards truth and so I bias others to "the correct decision"
which is "obviously a desire for truth" ...

You asked a BIG question.
And I am grateful for is because in answering your question, I have
answered one of my own.
--
Mordecai!

When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
Anathema
2012-01-18 23:07:33 UTC
Permalink
Mordecai wrote: >
Post by Mordecai
Even then, he does not tell them who he is.
You see the example of Abraham - he was not told
the name of our G_d even though he won a great blessing.
I had long considered that. In fact, the realization of that
alone changed my 'reality'.

Very well stated Mordecai, thank you.
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 22:18:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anathema
Post by vince garcia
Post by Anathema
My apologies. There is a *huge* difference between
Sam's beliefs, and that of the JW's / SDA's.
Sam believes and follows YHVH. Sam further understands
that Christ was the firstborn of all creation. Thus, before
*everything* accept YHVH Himself.
JWs would have a different view?
Indeed. And JW's observe that they call the "greater shabat",
which is Sunday. I have seen nothing in Sam which reminds
me of a JW teaching.
Post by vince garcia
Isn't Jehovah their big thing like YHWH
is to sam?
If you understood the meaning of the word "Jehovah",
you would also perhaps begin to understand what
YHVH means to Sam.
For they are not the same.
let me explain to You that i know how we got the name
"jehovah" it was from Peter Galitin, a monk, and linguist, who later became
the Confessor of the Pope.
the catholic Church sent him to India to translate
the Bahatavah gita into Latin.
in the Bahatavah gita, there is an account of Jahoba
a little blue G-d with 6 arms, who spied 3 young Girls
Bathing in the Ganges River, then He spied on their clothes in the Mullberry
bushes, so he put them on,
to find out what being a girl was all about.
he bacame aroused, and began to dance, and
the Girls Saw him, and feared him , until they spied his Enormous Erection,
and they fell into desire for him.
he married all three and they went unto heaven giving birth to their Version
of the holy Trinity, of Hare, Ramah, and Krishna, each half brothers.
ramah by his sexual prowess became the Head G-D of their Trinity.
Later he invented Jehovah and inserted it into scripture
in place of the tetragramitin, of YHWH
Just FYI
Sam
Anathema
2012-01-17 22:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Anathema
If you understood the meaning of the word "Jehovah",
you would also perhaps begin to understand what
YHVH means to Sam.
For they are not the same.
let me explain to You that i know how we got the name
"jehovah" it was from Peter Galitin, a monk, and linguist,
who later became the Confessor of the Pope.
the catholic Church sent him to India to translate
the Bahatavah gita into Latin.
in the Bahatavah gita, there is an account of Jahoba
a little blue G-d with 6 arms, who spied 3 young Girls
Bathing in the Ganges River, then He spied on their
clothes in the Mullberry bushes, so he put them on,
to find out what being a girl was all about.
he bacame aroused, and began to dance, and
the Girls Saw him, and feared him , until they spied
his Enormous Erection, and they fell into desire for him.
he married all three and they went unto heaven giving
birth to their Version of the holy Trinity, of Hare, Ramah,
and Krishna, each half brothers. ramah by his sexual
prowess became the Head G-D of their Trinity.
Later he invented Jehovah and inserted it into scripture
in place of the tetragramitin, of YHWH
Thanks for sharing that Sam. I had not heard that before.

However I do realize what "Jehovah" means in Hebrew.

IMO: It [Jehovah] is antithetical to anything YHVH would
mean. That is not to say though that YHVH does not also
do that which "Jehovah" means.
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 17:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D",
It's "horse shit" to teach Jesus was eternally pre-existent with the
Father?
Statement speaks for itself
Read my lips boys and girls!
he had to Exist to Exist, if He is Eternally Prexistant
He cannot exist in the Existence.
so you are Saying that they both never Existed in the Existence.
therefore Logicly You are saying it's a figment of Our
combined imagination, like that lil Gal from the Minning Town in the
west,
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
trying to find Happiness being Married to a rich English Dude.
So he is forever in the Before He existed,
Therefore He never was.
Now Vince,
in a land that was, and a land that is There was a was,
from the Is that Is, whom said to all whom would Listen.
It is better to be an Is that Is, than a was that Was, but it's
better to be a Was that Was than a never Was at All.
You failed to read it fully through, So allow mt to repost it For You,
to
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
just Read it Slowly
dude--we've all read it before. Nothing new. You have a gross
misunderstanding of the Bible, and think since God "begot" jesus, that
means that Jesus didn't exist before God brought Him out of Himself,
then Jesus became the agent of further creation.
That's basically Jehovah's Witness theology
WRONG!!!
they actually Believe Jesus is michael the archangel,
and NOT the Only Begooten son of G-D.
Of course they believe He is the begotten son of God.
Nothey don't because Michael was a Created being, not a begotten being
michael could not have made all things,
since michael himself was made, and not the firstborn of all Creation
read it again,
THIS TIME CAREFULLY, Slowly, and no injection of What You think I am saying,
but what i actually say.
that is the biggest problem on Newsgroups, not Understanding people are
usualy not very dubious,
but plain spoken, and say exactly what they say,
and mean what they exactly say iregardless of your opinions of what they
say.
it's rather simple that way, to just read what they say, instead of
Injecting your thoughts and or intents unto them
So just read it for what it says

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam

with deep regards
sam
Post by vince garcia
And yes, they think He is Michael, captain of the LORD's host.
Same basic notion as you teach but for you not calling Him Michael
Point is, their heretical view of the non-deity Christ is basically the
same as yours from what I can tell. The Michael thing is no big
difference
Post by Sam Taylor
Since You have a problem trying to figure out
exactly what I believe without putting your own ideas in it,
let Me repost it for you, as you will find no reference to Gabriel, and or
Michael, and or Raphael.
where in the hack did Raphael come from anyway?
out of mans Imaginations?
So Here it is this is what I believe
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
with deep regards
sam
Post by vince garcia
It's all demonic heresy.
You are not allowed to believe that and be a member of the Christian
faith
Thne you indictaed it was "horseshit" to believe in the eternal
co-excistence of Christ with God, being fully God Himse;f
Anathema
2012-01-17 17:41:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by vince garcia
That's basically Jehovah's Witness theology
WRONG!!!
they actually Believe Jesus is michael the archangel,
I think the SDA's also claim that.
Post by Sam Taylor
where in the hack did Raphael come from anyway?
Probably from the book of Enoch.
Anathema
2012-01-17 17:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
dude--we've all read it before. Nothing new. You
have a gross misunderstanding of the Bible, and think
since God "begot" jesus, that means that Jesus didn't
exist before God brought Him out of Himself,
then Jesus became the agent of further creation.
Thus, Christ is the firstborn of all creation.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.
Post by vince garcia
It's all demonic heresy.
Be careful Vince.

It remains that some of what Sam writes is true.
If that is the case, you are calling that truth of
Scriptures "demonic heresy".
Post by vince garcia
You are not allowed to believe that and be a
member of the Christian faith
Again, please show clearly in the Scriptures where
it is written that one *must* believe that Christ is
ton Theon.
Anathema
2012-01-17 16:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence
with G-D",
It's "horse shit" to teach Jesus was eternally
pre-existent with the Father?
Statement speaks for itself
Read the statement.
duke
2012-01-18 19:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
The triune Godhead - according to Christianity - existed for all time before,
and that is at least 13.7 billion years. The triune Godhead is 3 persons in
one God = Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The person we experience in the bible as Jesus is God become flesh to show flesh
the way to eternal salvation in love and obedience to the Father. Jesus in the
flesh even had to undergo resurrection at the hands of the Father. Flesh is not
divine.



duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
Sam Taylor
2012-01-19 22:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Sam Taylor
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:57:12 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
He could not be eternally Preexistant, and have ever
Existed in the Existance
The triune Godhead - according to Christianity - existed for all time before,
and that is at least 13.7 billion years. The triune Godhead is 3 persons in
one God = Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
duke,
wouldn't a better explanation , then Eternally PRE Existant
been "eternally associated with the father" but if He
eternally Prexisted with G-D
You are saying That Both He and G-D in fact never existed, but as the
putting was put, it is both
illogical, and says even G-D had no existance, as he is eternaly (forever,
and ever, and ever) stuch in
the prexistence., and You and I know that The Father said unto Him, let us
Make man in Our Image.
Had they been in the prexistence they Could not have brought forth with the
Help of the Spirit of G-d all that was made.
then i was trying to point out, the point of G-D of very G-D meant in
reality of language He would have Been
ther fathers G-D, and how could that be, as He sprung from the father, and
in time that the father was alone, before He came forth With, and from the
Father.
It just sounded kind of illogical, the way it was explained.
maybe it would sound different in another language than english
love
sam
Post by duke
The person we experience in the bible as Jesus is God become flesh to show flesh
the way to eternal salvation in love and obedience to the Father. Jesus in the
flesh even had to undergo resurrection at the hands of the Father. Flesh is not
divine.
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 21:15:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.

Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
Read this carefully
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,

now you have what I said
now read the Explanation carefully

So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 21:25:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.
Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
Read this carefully
I'm not reading your ridiculing garbage. You in fact did say you
believe God created Christ as a spirit.
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 21:50:05 UTC
Permalink
now Linda, YOU ARE THE LIAR, as that is NOT what I said at all, and If You
don't read it, How do You know
it's Garbage.
nor did I say He was a created Being, but a Begotten Being.
If judgement you must have Truth, not Opinion
to base that from.
not the hysterical whims, and thoughts of
lil school girls.
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.
Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
Read this carefully
I'm not reading your ridiculing garbage. You in fact did say you
believe God created Christ as a spirit.
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 22:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
now Linda, YOU ARE THE LIAR, as that is NOT what I said at all, and If You
don't read it, How do You know
it's Garbage.
nor did I say He was a created Being, but a Begotten Being.
If judgement you must have Truth, not Opinion
to base that from.
not the hysterical whims, and thoughts of
lil school girls.
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.
Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
Read this carefully
I'm not reading your ridiculing garbage. You in fact did say you
believe God created Christ as a spirit.
no i did not!
I Said
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 22:34:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
don't read it, How do You know
it's Garbage.
nor did I say He was a created Being, but a Begotten Being.
If judgement you must have Truth, not Opinion
to base that from.
not the hysterical whims, and thoughts of
lil school girls.
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.
Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
Read this carefully
I'm not reading your ridiculing garbage. You in fact did say you
believe God created Christ as a spirit.
no i did not!
So you said "begot" MEANING create because begotten refers to the
FLESH, not to the creation of a spirit.
Post by Sam Taylor
I Said
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 23:02:13 UTC
Permalink
that is NOT what I said at all, and If You
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
don't read it, How do You know
it's Garbage.
nor did I say He was a created Being, but a Begotten Being.
If judgement you must have Truth, not Opinion
to base that from.
not the hysterical whims, and thoughts of
lil school girls.
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.
Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
Read this carefully
I'm not reading your ridiculing garbage. You in fact did say you
believe God created Christ as a spirit.
no i did not!
So you said "begot" MEANING create because begotten refers to the
FLESH, not to the creation of a spirit.

Linda,
where did you find that gem of wisdom?
That G-D now cannot bring forth from His own being,
a son, of the same spiritual Composition as He is.
so you actually don't believe he is in fact the
only begotten son of G-D, but those are just flowery words G-d breated in
Scripture to confuse the Logical,
and the Reasoning.
Now you have disproved G-D is a Father, and that that Father is not all
Powerfull, and has Limitations.
Sam
Post by Sam Taylor
I Said
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 23:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
that is NOT what I said at all, and If You
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
don't read it, How do You know
it's Garbage.
nor did I say He was a created Being, but a Begotten Being.
If judgement you must have Truth, not Opinion
to base that from.
not the hysterical whims, and thoughts of
lil school girls.
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is
eternal.
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into
existence
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally
as
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't
hear
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.
Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
Read this carefully
I'm not reading your ridiculing garbage. You in fact did say you
believe God created Christ as a spirit.
no i did not!
So you said "begot" MEANING create because begotten refers to the
FLESH, not to the creation of a spirit.
Linda,
where did you find that gem of wisdom?
That G-D now cannot bring forth from His own being,
a son, of the same spiritual Composition as He is.
so you actually don't believe he is in fact the
only begotten son of G-D, but those are just flowery words G-d breated in
Scripture to confuse the Logical,
and the Reasoning.
Now you have disproved G-D is a Father, and that that Father is not all
Powerfull, and has Limitations.
Sam
It is you who ridicules God as the Father, calling him "Big Daddy".
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
I Said
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 22:35:24 UTC
Permalink
That sounds like an inadvertent confession you have indeed been lying.
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
as that is NOT what I said at all, and If You
don't read it, How do You know
it's Garbage.
nor did I say He was a created Being, but a Begotten Being.
If judgement you must have Truth, not Opinion
to base that from.
not the hysterical whims, and thoughts of
lil school girls.
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam has said he believes God created the Son of God as a spirit in the
beginning and before the Son of God was born in the flesh. So
apparently, according to his interpretation combined with the timeline
in Genesis One, he thinks that God created the Son of God after God
had created the angels/spirits, but prior to God's creation of the
Earth and the cosmos, mankind, and the animals.
Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
Read this carefully
I'm not reading your ridiculing garbage. You in fact did say you
believe God created Christ as a spirit.
no i did not!
I Said
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Anathema
2012-01-17 01:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
Linda,
once again You fail to show any reading comprehension
And the saga continues.
Post by Linda Lee
I'm not reading your ridiculing garbage.
Which of course is a "ridiculing" statement.

As Nascar said a couple of years ago:

Boys, have at it!!!
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 21:57:40 UTC
Permalink
randy did you read the Original post?
or what someone else said about it?
so let Me repost it in it's etirety for You
Please read it Carefully, and fully before responding.
as you are usually the Fairest person to debate,
and Argue With
so Here it is

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam

Now does that say G-D created his Son?
no it says He was Begotten just like the 15 examples of the apastolic Creeds
churchianity proclaims in
the Words of "Begotten not Created, differenciating
that begettal, and creation are Two (2) seperate and
distinct Actions.
Love
Sam
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 22:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
randy did you read the Original post?
or what someone else said about it?
so let Me repost it in it's etirety for You
Please read it Carefully, and fully before responding.
as you are usually the Fairest person to debate,
and Argue With
so Here it is
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
So according to Sam, the Messiah did not resurrect, nor did he ascend
back to Heaven from whence he came, because Sam says God gave his Son
as an eternal gift for us, so that the spirit of the Son of God is now
where? Sheol? Or does Sam think the Son's spirit was destroyed in the
lake of fire?
Post by Sam Taylor
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Now does that say G-D created his Son?
no it says He was Begotten just like the 15 examples of the apastolic Creeds
churchianity proclaims in
the Words of "Begotten not Created, differenciating
that begettal, and creation are Two (2) seperate and
distinct Actions.
Love
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 23:13:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
randy did you read the Original post?
or what someone else said about it?
so let Me repost it in it's etirety for You
Please read it Carefully, and fully before responding.
as you are usually the Fairest person to debate,
and Argue With
so Here it is
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
So according to Sam, the Messiah did not resurrect, nor did he ascend
back to Heaven from whence he came, because Sam says God gave his Son
as an eternal gift for us, so that the spirit of the Son of God is now
where? Sheol? Or does Sam think the Son's spirit was destroyed in the
lake of fire?

Linda,
now is another Gem of misinterpretation from you, you are
not reading my words but translating them to your own
reasoning.
but there is an error in Your translation, for the Words i put forth, do not
line up with Your Biases.
so it is a false translation.
what g-d got back was the second adam, of
Flesh and Bone, please note no blood, for His life is
not in the blood, as He shed that for Your forgiveness,
His life in is the Spirit, of G-D IN Him the Hope of Glory,
as ours is Christ in Us the hope of Glory.
and when all things are Subdued unto this New Creation, he subdues himself
unto G-d that G-D may be in all,
and through all the hope of Glory.
when the second adam acended unto his father, He was exhaulted unto the New
Creation to bring forth many sons and daughters, as HIS Spirit may draw,
aned by that Spirit We too can cry forth Abba father.
sam
Post by Sam Taylor
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Now does that say G-D created his Son?
no it says He was Begotten just like the 15 examples of the apastolic Creeds
churchianity proclaims in
the Words of "Begotten not Created, differenciating
that begettal, and creation are Two (2) seperate and
distinct Actions.
Love
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence...
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just Vince's theology. That
is the theology of the historic Church, the orthodox formula that
binds all conservative Christians together! We *all* believe that.
Jesus is eternally existent because he is deity. And deity is eternal.
If deity is eternal, so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus came into existence
in time as a man. That he certainly did. He did not exist eternally as
a man. He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that Vince
believes Jesus existed eternally as a man, had existed from eternity
as a man, then I would think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear
him say that, did he?
randy
vince garcia
2012-01-17 00:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Linda,
now is another Gem of misinterpretation from you, you are
not reading my words but translating them to your own
reasoning.
but there is an error in Your translation, for the Words i put forth, do not
line up with Your Biases.
so it is a false translation.
what g-d got back was the second adam, of
Flesh and Bone, please note no blood, for His life is
not in the blood, as He shed that for Your forgiveness,
His life in is the Spirit, of G-D IN Him the Hope of Glory,
as ours is Christ in Us the hope of Glory.
and when all things are Subdued unto this New Creation, he subdues himself
unto G-d that G-D may be in all,
and through all the hope of Glory.
when the second adam acended unto his father, He was exhaulted unto the New
Creation to bring forth many sons and daughters, as HIS Spirit may draw,
aned by that Spirit We too can cry forth Abba father.
sam
"You really say odd, suspicious things. And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee
Linda Lee
2012-01-17 00:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Linda,
now is another Gem of misinterpretation from you, you are
not reading my words but translating them to your own
reasoning.
but there is an error in Your translation, for the Words i put forth, do not
line up with Your Biases.
so it is a false translation.
what g-d got back was the second adam, of
Flesh and Bone, please note no blood, for His life is
not in the blood, as He shed that for Your forgiveness,
His life in is the Spirit, of G-D IN Him the Hope of Glory,
as ours is Christ in Us the hope of Glory.
and when all things are Subdued unto this New Creation, he subdues himself
unto G-d that G-D may be in all,
and through all the hope of Glory.
when the second adam acended unto his father, He was exhaulted unto the New
Creation to bring forth many sons and daughters, as HIS Spirit may draw,
aned by that Spirit We too can cry forth Abba father.
sam
"You really say odd, suspicious things.  And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee
What he says is false.

Sam said of the death of the Messiah: "what g-d got back was the
second adam, of Flesh and Bone"

Paul said in I Cor. 15:47 that the second man (the second adam) was
spiritual and was in fact "the Lord from Heaven", and the "first man
Adam" was a living soul/flesh and bone, and the "last Adam was made a
quickening spirit" (I Cor. 15:45). Yet Sam's confusion says the second
Adam was flesh and bone.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living
soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that
which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is
the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and
as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also
bear the image of the heavenly.
Linda Lee
2012-01-17 02:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Ah, the Unjust Judge has reared his ugly head again.
Anathema
2012-01-17 02:21:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Ah, the Unjust Judge has reared
his ugly head again.
<chuckle>

And the ol' ....

Nevermind, I'll try to be good.

I did say "try".
Anathema
2012-01-17 01:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
So according to Sam, the Messiah did not resurrect,
nor did he ascend back to Heaven from whence he
came, because Sam says God gave his Son as an
eternal gift for us, so that the spirit of the Son of God
is now where? Sheol? Or does Sam think the Son's
spirit was destroyed in the lake of fire?
So much for comprehension, you where right Sam.

Instead, once again she attempts to put things in
the darkest possible light.

SAM!!! DUCK!!!

<another molotov flys past overhead>
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 02:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anathema
Post by Linda Lee
So according to Sam, the Messiah did not resurrect,
nor did he ascend back to Heaven from whence he
came, because Sam says God gave his Son as an
eternal gift for us, so that the spirit of the Son of God
is now where? Sheol? Or does Sam think the Son's
spirit was destroyed in the lake of fire?
So much for comprehension, you where right Sam.
Instead, once again she attempts to put things in
the darkest possible light.
SAM!!! DUCK!!!
a soldier returned from war, and took his familty on a Picnic.
The young son Yelled "Duck Daddy", and He is eternally stuck under the
Picnic table.
</ ; ^ )
Post by Anathema
<another molotov flys past overhead>
Anathema
2012-01-17 02:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Post by Anathema
SAM!!! DUCK!!!
a soldier returned from war, and took his familty on a Picnic.
The young son Yelled "Duck Daddy", and He is eternally
stuck under the Picnic table.
<chuckle>
vince garcia
2012-01-17 00:05:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
You can say that all you wish, but you have said there was a time Jesus
did not exist but came in to being, and whether you use the word "begot"
or not, THAT MEANS HE WAS CREATED, BODY AND SOUL.

That's damnable heresy
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 01:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Sam Taylor
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
You can say that all you wish, but you have said there was a time Jesus
did not exist but came in to being, and whether you use the word "begot"
or not, THAT MEANS HE WAS CREATED, BODY AND SOUL.
That's damnable heresy
begotten, and created are not Synonems, they are two(2) words with Two(2)
meanings
that bear no Similarities.
show me in scripture where it is a damnable herasy, or even worshiping One
G-D only is heretical.
it might be to your thinking, but to the One true G-d who has stated that
"BEFORE" Him was no g-D formed,
nor even After Him there was NO G-d.
to G-D they are truth, iregardless of Your Pronouncements.
I'll take G-D's Word for it, Thank You
Sam
Pastor Dave, Th.D.
2012-01-17 16:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
Vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent
with the Father. If that is so Jesus never
came into existence.
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just
Vince's theology. That is the theology of the
historic Church, the orthodox formula that binds
all conservative Christians together! We *all*
believe that. Jesus is eternally existent because
he is deity. And deity is eternal. If deity is eternal,
so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus
came into existence in time as a man. That he
certainly did. He did not exist eternally as a man.
He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that
Vince believes Jesus existed eternally as a man,
had existed from eternity as a man, then I would
think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear him
say that, did he?
And to clarify and put a finer point on it, technically,
"Jesus" did not always exist. Jesus was a man. A
human being. It was the Spirit in Him that was God,
which inhabited the body of "the man Jesus Christ".

It may be a fine point, but it's an important one to clarify,
since Sam appears to be trying to make an argument
about the man Jesus Christ as being a human being
and saying that Vince believes that "the man Jesus Christ"
always existed and you have also clarified that quite nicely
and now with two of us saying it, he cannot argue that it
is just you claiming that's the normal belief of the church.

As for me, of course I believe that "the Christ" always existed,
but I do not believe that a human named Jesus exists in
Heaven now. Jesus? Yes. As a human being? No. He was
transformed when He ascended and somewhat before that.

Heaven is a spiritual place, not a physical place consisting
of humans and God the Father is certainly not human.
The Scripture says clearly that "God is Spirit and those
who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth".
And if Jesus is God also, then He is Spirit and it is not "truth"
since the time of His ascension, to worship Him as a human,
as humans, when we are told that "God is Spirit" and that
we must worship Him "in spirit".

Thus, the truth is that Jesus is now in His previous, glorified
state, just as He prayed the Father to do for Him (John 17:5).

The problem I see today in Futurism as a general doctrine,
is that they do believe that Jesus is still a human man in
Heaven and that He will return as such. But how does
this jibe with His eternal existence as the Christ, Spirit,
in Heaven, from forever, before and after? If God is
indeed Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit, then
that is what we must be doing now, amen? But if we are
claiming that He is still a human, then we are saying that
He is not "spirit". We cannot have it both ways! Is Heaven
indeed a spiritual place, except for wherever Jesus decides
to walk that day? C'mon, let's get a grip here! <lol> :)

Jesus was transformed back to spirit, to the "glory He had
with the Father before the world was". Since the world
did not even exist yet, Jesus cannot be talking about Him
remaining human and since He asked the Father to restore
Him to that previous state, it is impossible that it would be
in human form, but in Heaven that He was talking about!
And note that indeed, He asked the Father to glorify Him
"with His own self" in that way. Is God human too?:

"And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own Self
with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was."
- John 17:5
--
Pastor Dave, Th.D.

The very best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

«::F::»«::U::»«::L::»«::F::»«::I::»«::L::»«::L::»«::E::»«::D::»

In the beginning, God created...

And He did it in six days and said He did it in six days
(Exodus 20:11). Jesus believed that and referenced it
in Matthew 19:3-8 and in other places. The original
Hebrew word for "day" ("yom"), is never used to mean
anything but a literal day in the Bible, when a numerical
adjective is present (second, third, etc.). Are we to
believe that this is somehow the one exception?
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 17:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Dave, Th.D.
Post by vince garcia
Sam Taylor
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
Vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent
with the Father. If that is so Jesus never
came into existence.
Sam, how can you be so naive? That isn't just
Vince's theology. That is the theology of the
historic Church, the orthodox formula that binds
all conservative Christians together! We *all*
believe that. Jesus is eternally existent because
he is deity. And deity is eternal. If deity is eternal,
so is Jesus!
This says nothing whatsoever about the fact Jesus
came into existence in time as a man. That he
certainly did. He did not exist eternally as a man.
He existed eternally as God. Now if you said that
Vince believes Jesus existed eternally as a man,
had existed from eternity as a man, then I would
think this is a bit strange. But I didn't hear him
say that, did he?
And to clarify and put a finer point on it, technically,
"Jesus" did not always exist. Jesus was a man. A
human being. It was the Spirit in Him that was God,
which inhabited the body of "the man Jesus Christ".
Actually dave,
If You had not kill filled me you could read exactly what i said.
Which I will now repost for You, but You will not see it unless someone will
reply without Snipping what I really said
I like Dave, and He has a good head on his Shoulders even If We may differ
in beliefs.
here is what I said
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Post by Pastor Dave, Th.D.
It may be a fine point, but it's an important one to clarify,
since Sam appears to be trying to make an argument
about the man Jesus Christ as being a human being
and saying that Vince believes that "the man Jesus Christ"
always existed and you have also clarified that quite nicely
and now with two of us saying it, he cannot argue that it
is just you claiming that's the normal belief of the church.
As for me, of course I believe that "the Christ" always existed,
but I do not believe that a human named Jesus exists in
Heaven now. Jesus? Yes. As a human being? No. He was
transformed when He ascended and somewhat before that.
Heaven is a spiritual place, not a physical place consisting
of humans and God the Father is certainly not human.
The Scripture says clearly that "God is Spirit and those
who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth".
And if Jesus is God also, then He is Spirit and it is not "truth"
since the time of His ascension, to worship Him as a human,
as humans, when we are told that "God is Spirit" and that
we must worship Him "in spirit".
Thus, the truth is that Jesus is now in His previous, glorified
state, just as He prayed the Father to do for Him (John 17:5).
The problem I see today in Futurism as a general doctrine,
is that they do believe that Jesus is still a human man in
Heaven and that He will return as such. But how does
this jibe with His eternal existence as the Christ, Spirit,
in Heaven, from forever, before and after? If God is
indeed Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit, then
that is what we must be doing now, amen? But if we are
claiming that He is still a human, then we are saying that
He is not "spirit". We cannot have it both ways! Is Heaven
indeed a spiritual place, except for wherever Jesus decides
to walk that day? C'mon, let's get a grip here! <lol> :)
Jesus was transformed back to spirit, to the "glory He had
with the Father before the world was". Since the world
did not even exist yet, Jesus cannot be talking about Him
remaining human and since He asked the Father to restore
Him to that previous state, it is impossible that it would be
in human form, but in Heaven that He was talking about!
And note that indeed, He asked the Father to glorify Him
"And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own Self
with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was."
- John 17:5
--
Pastor Dave, Th.D.
The very best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!
«::F::»«::U::»«::L::»«::F::»«::I::»«::L::»«::L::»«::E::»«::D::»
In the beginning, God created...
And He did it in six days and said He did it in six days
(Exodus 20:11). Jesus believed that and referenced it
in Matthew 19:3-8 and in other places. The original
Hebrew word for "day" ("yom"), is never used to mean
anything but a literal day in the Bible, when a numerical
adjective is present (second, third, etc.). Are we to
believe that this is somehow the one exception?
j***@satx.rr.com
2012-01-16 16:54:02 UTC
Permalink
Ex 3:14 - And God said unto Moses,
I AM THAT I AM: and he said,
Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you.


Joh 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily,
I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am.


Joh 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said unto him,
My Lord and my God.
Linda Lee
2012-01-16 17:49:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Ex 3:14 - And God said unto Moses,
              I AM THAT I AM: and he said,
             Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
             I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily,
              I say unto you,
               Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said unto him,
                 My Lord and my God.
LITV:
Joh 8:23 And He said to them, You are from below; I am from above.
You are from this world; I am not from this world.
Joh 8:24 Therefore, I said to you that you will die in your sins. For
if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.
Pastor Dave, Th.D.
2012-01-17 16:28:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:49:39 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Ex 3:14 - And God said unto Moses,
              I AM THAT I AM: and he said,
             Thus shalt thou say unto the
children of Israel, I AM hath
sent me unto you.
Joh 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily,
verily, I say unto you,
               Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said
unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 8:23 And He said to them, You are from below;
I am from above. You are from this world; I am not
from this world.
Joh 8:24 Therefore, I said to you that you will die in
your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will
die in your sins.
And yet, so many see Him as still being human,
which makes no sense.

Btw, starting to like that LITV, huh? :)

Try the KJ3, the next "incarnation" of it. Supplies are limited.
While no Bible is perfect, it is simply the best one out there!
I am intimately familiar with this translation, for good reason
and so, I know just how accurate it is. Yes, there are a few
of what I call "single word errors", but they are rarer than
even the KJV and reading this Bible will change your view on
a number of things and blow your mind on what you thought
you knew, but will find out that the Scripture actually says
something totally different! As I showed with a verse from
2 Peter in another post, these are important differences!

I highly recommend that you grab a copy before they're
all gone, as it is not sure when another run will be printed!

http://tinyurl.com/288q7zf

We are working on getting a software version out there also,
to replace the LITV version.
--
Pastor Dave, Th.D.

The very best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

«::F::»«::U::»«::L::»«::F::»«::I::»«::L::»«::L::»«::E::»«::D::»

We are born wet, naked and hungry. Then things get worse.
Nancy
2012-01-16 21:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
~~~
Nancy

Wow, Sam, I have been wondering about this.....why all the blame was
put on Eve, when she was deceived and Adam was not! Thanks for helping
me understand a little bit better.....
Post by Sam Taylor
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 23:21:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
~~~
Nancy

Wow, Sam, I have been wondering about this.....why all the blame was
put on Eve, when she was deceived and Adam was not! Thanks for helping
me understand a little bit better.....

dear nancy,
you are very welcome, and I am glad you understand what I thought, i plainly
stated, but others translate,
as what I did not say.
remenber gal, when someone is decieved, they have no knowledge of the
deception, or even if they are in fact
decieved.
it is only when they discover they were decieved, is
the Only time they can change from deception unto
the Light.
the world Lies in the darkness of deception, and sin
because of that deception.
So keep that pretty, and loving light shinning
love
your brother in him
Sam
Post by Sam Taylor
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Nancy
2012-01-17 18:21:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
~~~
Nancy
Wow, Sam, I have been wondering about this.....why all the blame was
put on Eve, when she was deceived and Adam was not! Thanks for helping
me understand a little bit better.....
dear nancy,
you are very welcome, and I am glad you understand what I thought, i plainly
stated, but others translate,
as what I did not say.
remenber gal, when someone is decieved, they have no knowledge of the
deception, or even if they are in fact
decieved.
it is only when they discover they were decieved, is
the Only time they can change from deception unto
the Light.
the world Lies in the darkness of deception, and sin
because of that deception.
So keep that pretty, and loving light shinning
love
your brother in him
Sam
Post by Sam Taylor
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam- Hide quoted text -
~~~
Nancy

Well, a person can read the Bible but will never understand it unless
they have the ~testimony of Jesus~.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that
you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who
have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus
is the spirit of prophecy."
Rev 19:9-10 (NKJV)

These people have no idea that King David and all the Prophets of old
are speaking to our day. Some refuse to believe David was even a
prophet.

It's steps, Sam, tiny steps we must take....8-) Let me tell
you....for months I have been talking to God about Adam and Eve. I
just couldn't understand how she was the one that all the blame was
on. I never talk to another soul about my confusion.....and then YOU
wrote what you did....it was like a light went off! 8-)

What Eve did was from being deceived, but what Adam did was
delibetate!...and ~this~ was the fall of man!
deliberate sin! Yes, you are right God could and most likely would
have delt with deception differently.....put deliberately going
against God was/is different.

Once again, Sam, thanks for being in the place God could use you to
teach me....8-)
Sam Taylor
2012-01-17 19:11:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
~~~
Nancy
Wow, Sam, I have been wondering about this.....why all the blame was
put on Eve, when she was deceived and Adam was not! Thanks for helping
me understand a little bit better.....
dear nancy,
you are very welcome, and I am glad you understand what I thought, i plainly
stated, but others translate,
as what I did not say.
remenber gal, when someone is decieved, they have no knowledge of the
deception, or even if they are in fact
decieved.
it is only when they discover they were decieved, is
the Only time they can change from deception unto
the Light.
the world Lies in the darkness of deception, and sin
because of that deception.
So keep that pretty, and loving light shinning
love
your brother in him
Sam
Post by Sam Taylor
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam- Hide quoted text -
~~~
Nancy

Well, a person can read the Bible but will never understand it unless
they have the ~testimony of Jesus~.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that
you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who
have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus
is the spirit of prophecy."
Rev 19:9-10 (NKJV)

These people have no idea that King David and all the Prophets of old
are speaking to our day. Some refuse to believe David was even a
prophet.

It's steps, Sam, tiny steps we must take....8-) Let me tell
you....for months I have been talking to God about Adam and Eve. I
just couldn't understand how she was the one that all the blame was
on. I never talk to another soul about my confusion.....and then YOU
wrote what you did....it was like a light went off! 8-)

What Eve did was from being deceived, but what Adam did was
delibetate!...and ~this~ was the fall of man!
deliberate sin! Yes, you are right God could and most likely would
have delt with deception differently.....put deliberately going
against God was/is different.

Once again, Sam, thanks for being in the place God could use you to
teach me....8-)

Nancy,
i am glad to do it,and am confident you will pass it along, many Times, and
Other things you discover when you
study the scripture, to righly partition the Words of Holiness.
love
Sam
Sam Taylor
2012-01-16 23:40:48 UTC
Permalink
dear sweet nancy,
remember the first outright lie in the Bible
was "it's the womans fault"
Men have been using that excuse ever since.
what the serpent said was Actually True,
after asking a question "did G-d say?"
sounds like some of the posters on this newsgroup
Eh?
(with a canadian accent)
Love
Sam
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
~~~
Nancy

Wow, Sam, I have been wondering about this.....why all the blame was
put on Eve, when she was deceived and Adam was not! Thanks for helping
me understand a little bit better.....
Post by Sam Taylor
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Sam Taylor
2012-01-19 13:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Nancy,
can you Imagine what would have happened if
Adam hadn't chose sin?
How henpecked would Adam have become?
G-D would have to, strike her with a bolt of Lightning,
and it would have been, Yes adam, No adam,do You
need to Spank Me again Adam?
they would have to start a Villiage called Stepford,
BUT the Men would soon figure Up how to Screw that Up, and gripe to g-D it's
Her fault.
Love
sam
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
~~~
Nancy

Wow, Sam, I have been wondering about this.....why all the blame was
put on Eve, when she was deceived and Adam was not! Thanks for helping
me understand a little bit better.....
Post by Sam Taylor
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Her is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam
Nancy
2012-01-19 14:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Nancy,
can you Imagine what would have happened if
Adam hadn't chose sin?
How henpecked would Adam have become?
G-D would have to, strike her with a bolt of Lightning,
and it would have been, Yes adam, No adam,do You
need to Spank Me again Adam?
they would have to start a Villiage called Stepford,
BUT the Men would soon figure Up how to Screw that Up, and gripe to g-D it's
Her fault.
Love
sam"
~~~
Nancy

lol! I gotta tell you this is funny. but all kidding aside...we
females were created to be helpmates. Not servants but helpmates.
Think about this, even after Eve ate of the tree and she came to Adam
to influence him to eat....had he said, no, Eve, God said we are NOT
to eat of this tree....let us go to God and tell Him what you have
done.....how different things may have been.....I guess we'll never
know...8-)
Anathema
2012-01-19 14:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy
Think about this, even after Eve ate of the tree and
she came to Adam to influence him to eat....had he
said, no, Eve, God said we are NOT to eat of this
tree....let us go to God and tell Him what you have
done
Oh, so you would have us men to have been
tattle-tales? <grin>
Nancy
2012-01-19 19:22:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anathema
Post by Nancy
Think about this, even after Eve ate of the tree and
she came to Adam to influence him to eat....had he
said, no, Eve, God said we are NOT to eat of this
tree....let us go to God and tell Him what you have
done
Oh, so you would have us men to have been
tattle-tales?  <grin>
~~~
Nancy

lo!!! Yes! Ok, ok, Adam could have said....you tell Him what you have
done. 8-)
Anathema
2012-01-19 20:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy
Post by Anathema
Oh, so you would have us men to have been
tattle-tales? <grin>
~~~
Nancy
lo!!! Yes! Ok, ok, Adam could have said....you tell
Him what you have done. 8-)
<chuckle>
duke
2012-01-18 22:15:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
Vince.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
vince garcia
2012-01-18 22:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anathema
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
Vince.
wanna go back to insulting each other then?

Don't lay it on me--i went out of my way NOT to insult you over the past
few days after you talked about how _I_ refused to let bygones be
bygones.

You've now rejected that and gone back to the insults that I've ignored
up to this point. I'll let your insult here pass this last day. Next
time you hit me back with an insult, we're back to the way it was
Anathema
2012-01-18 23:18:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
wanna go back to insulting each other then?
Don't lay it on me--i went out of my way NOT to insult
you over the past few days after you talked about
how _I_ refused to let bygones be bygones.
You've now rejected that and gone back to the insults that
I've ignored up to this point. I'll let your insult here pass
this last day. Next time you hit me back with an insult,
we're back to the way it was
You have both been better. It has been noticed and
appreciated.

I have to agree with you Vince on this one.

Let's help to keep it civil please Duke.
duke
2012-01-19 18:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anathema
Post by vince garcia
wanna go back to insulting each other then?
Don't lay it on me--i went out of my way NOT to insult
you over the past few days after you talked about
how _I_ refused to let bygones be bygones.
You've now rejected that and gone back to the insults that
I've ignored up to this point. I'll let your insult here pass
this last day. Next time you hit me back with an insult,
we're back to the way it was
You have both been better. It has been noticed and
appreciated.
I have to agree with you Vince on this one.
Let's help to keep it civil please Duke.
I don't sit still to uncivil demands from vince.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
duke
2012-01-19 18:15:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by vince garcia
Post by Anathema
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
Vince.
wanna go back to insulting each other then?
What's wrong with me telling you that YOUR theology is wrong?
Post by vince garcia
Don't lay it on me--i went out of my way NOT to insult you over the past
few days after you talked about how _I_ refused to let bygones be
bygones.
You're trashing elder:child right now like he was a piece of garbage just
exactly the way you did to me. Now I too don't buy into his theology, but
that's the way you got to be known as vindictive vince. It's your way of
response. Don't blame me for pointing it out.
Post by vince garcia
You've now rejected that and gone back to the insults that I've ignored
up to this point. I'll let your insult here pass this last day. Next
time you hit me back with an insult, we're back to the way it was
Great. Looking forward to defending God's Word against your mistakes.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****
vince garcia
2012-01-19 22:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by vince garcia
Post by Anathema
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
Vince.
wanna go back to insulting each other then?
What's wrong with me telling you that YOUR theology is wrong?
nothing. It's the catty attitude, and little digs
Post by duke
Post by vince garcia
Don't lay it on me--i went out of my way NOT to insult you over the past
few days after you talked about how _I_ refused to let bygones be
bygones.
You're trashing elder:child right now like he was a piece of garbage just
I do consider him garbage. This is between you and me only. You want to
be courteous to me, I'll reciprocate

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