Discussion:
Christianity is Immoral
(too old to reply)
Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
2003-11-29 20:38:55 UTC
Permalink
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings

The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?

My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.

Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.

Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.

If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.

Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.

Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.

The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness. And
since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally ill. So
whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an omnipotent
God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most likely Jesus was
just a man who suffered from some sort of mental illness.

Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral one,
Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that encourages
real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that discourages
morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages its adherents
to teach falsehoods as the truth.

Copyright 2003, Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here.

http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=323
Constance Vigilant
2003-11-29 23:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
You obviously have no life experience, since that's not what happens at all.

If patients cannot pay then they don't get treated in most parts of the
world. The Bible tells it like it is when we see the old girl handing over
her life savings to doctors who don't know how to help her any better than
the next man.

They are all a bunch of sharlatans, and their morals are worse than hookers,
who will give freebies occasionally.

I heard of something called Hookers Doctorin', and I thought that was about
right.

They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their collective
jejeunum.

In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Tiger
2003-11-29 23:45:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Constance Vigilant
They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their
collective jejeunum.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Reminds me of, "God loves you, you stupid, lazy, foul-mouthed,
atheistic pinko."
--
Tiger

"In the devil's theology, the important thing is to be absolutely
right and prove everyone else is absolutely wrong." - Thomas Merton
eighth octave
2003-12-01 06:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger
Post by Constance Vigilant
They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their
collective jejeunum.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Reminds me of, "God loves you, you stupid, lazy, foul-mouthed,
atheistic pinko."
'Constance' is one of those anti-doctor Christians. You know the
kind. There the ones you always read about in the news - the ones who
starve their children to death or refuse to give them medicine because
they think they know better. In other words, she's a kook.
eighth octave
2003-12-01 06:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Constance Vigilant
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Oh, please. You don't love anyone. You're a danger to yourself and society.
Zsarnok
2003-11-30 03:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
You obviously have no life experience, since that's not what happens at all.
If patients cannot pay then they don't get treated in most parts of the
world. The Bible tells it like it is when we see the old girl handing over
her life savings to doctors who don't know how to help her any better than
the next man.
They are all a bunch of sharlatans, and their morals are worse than hookers,
who will give freebies occasionally.
I heard of something called Hookers Doctorin', and I thought that was about
right.
They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their collective
jejeunum.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Typical. Why should you meet your own needs? Somebody should take care
of you. You are so special, other people should feel privileged to work
for you for free, to give you the fruits of their labor free of charge.
Remember that when your paycheck is due, sweets.

Zsarnok
Constance Vigilant
2003-11-30 12:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
You obviously have no life experience, since that's not what happens at all.
If patients cannot pay then they don't get treated in most parts of the
world. The Bible tells it like it is when we see the old girl handing over
her life savings to doctors who don't know how to help her any better than
the next man.
They are all a bunch of sharlatans, and their morals are worse than hookers,
who will give freebies occasionally.
I heard of something called Hookers Doctorin', and I thought that was about
right.
They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their collective
jejeunum.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Typical. Why should you meet your own needs? Somebody should take care
of you. You are so special, other people should feel privileged to work
for you for free, to give you the fruits of their labor free of charge.
Remember that when your paycheck is due, sweets.
Zsarnok
Do I detect a Galen in our midsts?

Ooh ooh ooh ooh!

In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Zsarnok
2003-11-30 23:08:20 UTC
Permalink
I don't know Galen.

Zsarnok
<snip>
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Zsarnok
Typical. Why should you meet your own needs? Somebody should take care
of you. You are so special, other people should feel privileged to work
for you for free, to give you the fruits of their labor free of charge.
Remember that when your paycheck is due, sweets.
Zsarnok
Do I detect a Galen in our midsts?
Ooh ooh ooh ooh!
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
eighth octave
2003-12-01 06:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zsarnok
I don't know Galen.
Constance is assuming that you are a doctor. In case you haven't
figured it out by now, Constance is a nut who thinks her God can save
children from disease better than a doctor. She's the type of person
you see in the news all the time; the kind that refuses to give
medicine to her kids, and they end up dead. Her excuse? "It's God's
will". Constance should be jailed, IMO.
Zsarnok
2003-12-06 18:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Oh yeah, I remember saying that doctors deserve to be paid too. Shitty
job, wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Zsarnok
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
I don't know Galen.
Constance is assuming that you are a doctor. In case you haven't
figured it out by now, Constance is a nut who thinks her God can save
children from disease better than a doctor. She's the type of person
you see in the news all the time; the kind that refuses to give
medicine to her kids, and they end up dead. Her excuse? "It's God's
will". Constance should be jailed, IMO.
Constance Vigilant
2003-12-07 01:36:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zsarnok
Oh yeah, I remember saying that doctors deserve to be paid too. Shitty
job, wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Zsarnok
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
I don't know Galen.
Constance is assuming that you are a doctor. In case you haven't
figured it out by now, Constance is a nut who thinks her God can save
children from disease better than a doctor. She's the type of person
you see in the news all the time; the kind that refuses to give
medicine to her kids, and they end up dead. Her excuse? "It's God's
will". Constance should be jailed, IMO.
I was actually thinking of Galen as in the series where Roddy McDowell plays
Galen...

In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Zsarnok
2003-12-09 02:10:30 UTC
Permalink
Don't know it.

Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Zsarnok
Oh yeah, I remember saying that doctors deserve to be paid too. Shitty
job, wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Zsarnok
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
I don't know Galen.
Constance is assuming that you are a doctor. In case you haven't
figured it out by now, Constance is a nut who thinks her God can save
children from disease better than a doctor. She's the type of person
you see in the news all the time; the kind that refuses to give
medicine to her kids, and they end up dead. Her excuse? "It's God's
will". Constance should be jailed, IMO.
I was actually thinking of Galen as in the series where Roddy McDowell plays
Galen...
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Lew/+Silat
2003-12-08 08:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Isnt it Gods will that there are doctors? :)


Lew/+Silat
Steve Zodiac
2003-12-09 01:17:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lew/+Silat
Isnt it Gods will that there are doctors? :)
Doctors pospone the enevitable death that prevents the passing of weak
genes. That is counter to nature and will ultimately destroy our genetics
unless we genetically alter ourselves, ironically.

Steve
Post by Lew/+Silat
Lew/+Silat
Constance Vigilant
2003-12-09 22:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Zodiac
Post by Lew/+Silat
Isnt it Gods will that there are doctors? :)
Doctors pospone the enevitable death that prevents the passing of weak
genes. That is counter to nature and will ultimately destroy our genetics
unless we genetically alter ourselves, ironically.
Steve
A lot of things done by this evolutionary world are in conflict with
evolution.

Evolution says we got here by survival of the fittest, and evolutionists go
on to create the welfare state, which does the opposite and immediately
tends to the dereliction of the human species.

At least Christians are more internally consistent.

In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Steve Zodiac
2003-12-09 22:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Steve Zodiac
Post by Lew/+Silat
Isnt it Gods will that there are doctors? :)
Doctors pospone the enevitable death that prevents the passing of weak
genes. That is counter to nature and will ultimately destroy our genetics
unless we genetically alter ourselves, ironically.
Steve
A lot of things done by this evolutionary world are in conflict with
evolution.
Evolution says we got here by survival of the fittest, and evolutionists go
on to create the welfare state, which does the opposite and immediately
tends to the dereliction of the human species.
At least Christians are more internally consistent.
Evolutionists created the welfare state? Jesus was a socialist remember. He
fed the hungry and clothed the naked, Christians protect the weakest and
most vulnerable. I'm not making a value judgement only that it is not good
for genetics strictly speaking.

Christianity is not based on sound scientific principles, thats why one can
be a good christian and still trash the environment at the same time.

Steve Zodiac
Constance Vigilant
2003-12-09 22:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Zodiac
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Steve Zodiac
Post by Lew/+Silat
Isnt it Gods will that there are doctors? :)
Doctors pospone the enevitable death that prevents the passing of weak
genes. That is counter to nature and will ultimately destroy our
genetics
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Steve Zodiac
unless we genetically alter ourselves, ironically.
Steve
A lot of things done by this evolutionary world are in conflict with
evolution.
Evolution says we got here by survival of the fittest, and evolutionists
go
Post by Constance Vigilant
on to create the welfare state, which does the opposite and immediately
tends to the dereliction of the human species.
At least Christians are more internally consistent.
Evolutionists created the welfare state? Jesus was a socialist remember. He
fed the hungry and clothed the naked, Christians protect the weakest and
most vulnerable. I'm not making a value judgement only that it is not good
for genetics strictly speaking.
Christianity is not based on sound scientific principles, thats why one can
be a good christian and still trash the environment at the same time.
Steve Zodiac
Jesus was no socialist.

A socialist would NOT have fed the hungry and clothed the naked.

A socialist would have expected the Government to do it.

A capitalist would be the one to take humanitarian responsibilities into
private hands.

If you think Jesus was a socialist, you obviously haven't lived under
socialism.

In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Steve Zodiac
2003-12-11 04:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Steve Zodiac
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Steve Zodiac
Post by Lew/+Silat
Isnt it Gods will that there are doctors? :)
Doctors pospone the enevitable death that prevents the passing of weak
genes. That is counter to nature and will ultimately destroy our
genetics
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Steve Zodiac
unless we genetically alter ourselves, ironically.
Steve
A lot of things done by this evolutionary world are in conflict with
evolution.
Evolution says we got here by survival of the fittest, and
evolutionists
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Steve Zodiac
go
Post by Constance Vigilant
on to create the welfare state, which does the opposite and immediately
tends to the dereliction of the human species.
At least Christians are more internally consistent.
Evolutionists created the welfare state? Jesus was a socialist remember.
He
Post by Steve Zodiac
fed the hungry and clothed the naked, Christians protect the weakest and
most vulnerable. I'm not making a value judgement only that it is not good
for genetics strictly speaking.
Christianity is not based on sound scientific principles, thats why one
can
Post by Steve Zodiac
be a good christian and still trash the environment at the same time.
Steve Zodiac
Jesus was no socialist.
A socialist would NOT have fed the hungry and clothed the naked.
A socialist would have expected the Government to do it.
A capitalist would be the one to take humanitarian responsibilities into
private hands.
Interesting theory.
Post by Constance Vigilant
If you think Jesus was a socialist, you obviously haven't lived under
socialism.
Let's just say he wasn't a capitalist for sure.
Post by Constance Vigilant
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
angelicusrex
2003-12-10 07:41:24 UTC
Permalink
What does your weird ideas on eugenics say about men like Stephen Hawking?
He's a lot smarter than you, but in some odd Neo-Darwinistic world you think
people like him should die and be supplanted by tough, hardy, low IQ
football players who can provide more big, strapping healthy babies... This
is exactly why Spiritualism will never be supplanted by atheism. Eugenics
and this type of Nazi spawned Pseudo-Darwinism is too cold, too calculating
and too rational. Even nature is not this cruel. Many animals show a lot of
altruism. Dolphins for instance save human beings from sharks or from
drowning. Vampire bats feed those who are too ill to get out and feed. A
group of African Elephants just went in to a well food-stocked stockade in a
game preserve and released all the antelopes herded there by park rangers!
No one can say why. I could name a half a dozen other examples of nature
contending with your views of Darwinism. Again, it is not "Survival of the
fittest" as in who is the strongest, healthiest or most aggressive, but
which species FITS into a niche better than another. Like rats survive
because people don't live in sewers and eat crud. Birds survive because they
eat grubs and hard seeds that we find unfit for our diets. They are prone to
disease, cancer and predators, just like we are. But they have their niche
and we have ours. In ours we HELP those who are suffering. For God's sake.
At least have some pity in your heart for those who you think are wasting
space!

Saint
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-10 08:45:06 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:41:24 -0700, "angelicusrex"
Post by angelicusrex
Dolphins for instance save human beings from sharks or from
drowning.
Dogs save humans far more often than dolphins, FWIW.
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-10 08:46:14 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:41:24 -0700, "angelicusrex"
Many animals show a lot of altruism.
It's debatable if altruism even exists. Self-interest often masks
itself as "altruism". You just have to look closely at the behavior
in question.
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-10 08:49:31 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:41:24 -0700, "angelicusrex"
Again, it is not "Survival of the fittest" as in who is the strongest,
healthiest or most aggressive, but which species FITS into a niche better
Not fit into a niche, but adapts for survival.
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-10 08:50:37 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:41:24 -0700, "angelicusrex"
Birds survive because they eat grubs and hard seeds
Birds also eat other dead birds.
Uncle Davey
2003-12-10 15:53:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:41:24 -0700, "angelicusrex"
Birds survive because they eat grubs and hard seeds
Birds also eat other dead birds.
Birds eat birds that died
They eat grubs and hard seeds too
They even eat grit

Thank you, thank you.

Uncle Davey
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-10 08:55:02 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:41:24 -0700, "angelicusrex"
they have their niche and we have ours.
You are quite ignorant. Humans don't have a specific niche.
Uncle Davey
2003-12-10 15:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:41:24 -0700, "angelicusrex"
they have their niche and we have ours.
You are quite ignorant. Humans don't have a specific niche.
If you ain't got your niche you ain't nowhere on the market.

Uncle Davey, product differentiation, that's what it's all about.
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-10 11:07:22 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:41:24 -0700, "angelicusrex"
Many animals show a lot of altruism.
It's debatable if altruism even exists. Self-interest often masks
itself as "altruism". You just have to look closely at the behavior
in question.
Steve Zodiac
2003-12-11 04:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by angelicusrex
What does your weird ideas on eugenics say about men like Stephen Hawking?
Nothing.
Post by angelicusrex
He's a lot smarter than you, but in some odd Neo-Darwinistic world you think
people like him should die and be supplanted by tough, hardy, low IQ
football players who can provide more big, strapping healthy babies...
Totally irrelevant. My point is that our medical interference with the
natural selction process does not strengthen our genetics or our immunity.
That is my point and it is true. I am not contesting whether we should care
about one another.

This
Post by angelicusrex
is exactly why Spiritualism will never be supplanted by atheism. Eugenics
and this type of Nazi spawned Pseudo-Darwinism is too cold, too calculating
and too rational.
I suggest that Christianity can't solve a single worldly problem and is
largley responsible for many of them.
Post by angelicusrex
Even nature is not this cruel. Many animals show a lot of
altruism.
Wonderful, and humans do to. what is your point?
Post by angelicusrex
Dolphins for instance save human beings from sharks or from
drowning. Vampire bats feed those who are too ill to get out and feed. A
group of African Elephants just went in to a well food-stocked stockade in a
game preserve and released all the antelopes herded there by park rangers!
Are you a naturalist of a heretical Christian?
Post by angelicusrex
No one can say why. I could name a half a dozen other examples of nature
contending with your views of Darwinism. Again, it is not "Survival of the
fittest" as in who is the strongest, healthiest or most aggressive, but
which species FITS into a niche better than another.
Exactly, you have misinterpreted the meaning of fit. It may include cunning,
intellegence, deception, aggression, etc.
Post by angelicusrex
Like rats survive
because people don't live in sewers and eat crud.
And a rat will die if it eats the wrong thing and there won't be a doctor
there to cure the rat so it can pass on its susceptible gene.

Birds survive because they
Post by angelicusrex
eat grubs and hard seeds that we find unfit for our diets. They are prone to
disease, cancer and predators, just like we are. But they have their niche
and we have ours. In ours we HELP those who are suffering. For God's sake.
At least have some pity in your heart for those who you think are wasting
space!
Easy now, I really do like people you know, I'm not the boogie
man.........................BOO........did I scare you?

Steve
Post by angelicusrex
Saint
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-11 05:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Zodiac
I suggest that Christianity can't solve a single worldly problem and is
largley responsible for many of them.
It's actually much more than a suggestion - it's a compelling theory.

Check out Robert Arking's article, "Aging: A Biological Perspective,"
in the current issue of American Scientist:

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/28346

Now look very carefully at the chart in Figure 2 on page 3 and notice
the dates and longevity rates.

The rise of science and the weakening of religion is directly
responsible for a higher quality of life in the world today.
Tiger
2003-12-11 05:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
The rise of science and the weakening of religion is directly
responsible for a higher quality of life in the world today.
LOL!
--
Tiger

"All intelligent faith in God has behind it a background of humble
agnosticism."
- Harry Emerson Fosdick
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-11 06:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Steve Zodiac
I suggest that Christianity can't solve a single worldly problem
and
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Steve Zodiac
is largley responsible for many of them.
It's actually much more than a suggestion - it's a compelling
theory.
Post by Li Mu Bai
Check out Robert Arking's article, "Aging: A Biological
Perspective,"
Post by Li Mu Bai
http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/28346
Now look very carefully at the chart in Figure 2 on page 3 and
notice
Post by Li Mu Bai
the dates and longevity rates.
http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetailNoFrame?assetId=2
8239
Post by Li Mu Bai
The rise of science and the weakening of religion is directly
responsible for a higher quality of life in the world today.
Tiger
2003-12-11 07:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Li Mu Bai
Now look very carefully at the chart in Figure 2 on page 3 and
notice the dates and longevity rates.
http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetailNoFrame?assetI
d=2 8239
Post by Li Mu Bai
The rise of science and the weakening of religion is directly
responsible for a higher quality of life in the world today.
You clearly misspelled "a longer life."
--
Tiger

"All intelligent faith in God has behind it a background of humble
agnosticism."
- Harry Emerson Fosdick
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-11 07:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
Now look very carefully at the chart in Figure 2 on page 3 and
notice the dates and longevity rates.
http://tinyurl.com/yq57
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
The rise of science and the weakening of religion is directly
responsible for a higher quality of life in the world today.
You clearly misspelled "a longer life."
Nope.

You clearly did not look at the chart.

Here it is again:

http://tinyurl.com/yq57

My statement regards a higher quality of life thanks to science:
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean drinking
water".

While it is true that this improved quality of life has led to longer
human life, religious institutions fought against the benefits of
science for centuries, resulting in an average life expectancy between
35-40 years, if one was lucky enough not to die in childbirth or
before puberty. The history of the Christian Church is a painful,
primitive, superstitious commentary on pure evil masquerading as
"truth". Medical doctors were forbidden to cure patients because
everyone knew that disease was a "sin", and God's will could not be
countered:

"...sickness was "regarded as the finger of Providence. God used
illness for a multitude of higher purposes...as a punishment..." [9].
Disease "was routinely interpreted as the consequence of sin, crime,
or moral fault, as precipitated by evil spirits, or as the work of
black magic. Disease was thus personalized and given a moral or
religious meaning." [10]. Doctors would also have declared the healing
power of Christ in the world, and that Antimony, prayer and fasting
were the sole cures."
http://www.homeoint.org/morrell/otherarticles/antibiotic.htm

Under the guidance of the Church, doctors neither cured patients nor
provided relief from pain and suffering. There can be no greater
example of evil in the world than the Christian Church prior to the
reclaiming of classical knowledge destroyed by those who pretended to
be represenatives of "God" and "Truth". And once the knowledge of the
pre-Christian scientists like Hippocrates was reclaimed and put back
into practice, a higher quality of life was the result. The victory
of knowledge over dogma, was the victory of science over religion.
Science improved the quality of life for everyone and longevity was
one of the benefits that the public reaped from unfettered, free
inquiry. Show me the benefits civilization has realized from the
tired tenets and dog-eared dogmas of the Mother Church and I'll show
you a pile of rotting corpses, condemned to an early death.
Tiger
2003-12-11 08:16:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean
drinking water".
And that's how you define "quality of life?" LOL.
--
Tiger

"All intelligent faith in God has behind it a background of humble
agnosticism." - Harry Emerson Fosdick
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-11 10:24:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean
drinking water".
And that's how you define "quality of life?" LOL.
In 1800, yes. You don't know how to read, do you?

Here's the link again, in case you learn to read:

http://tinyurl.com/yq57
Tiger
2003-12-11 10:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean
drinking water".
And that's how you define "quality of life?" LOL.
In 1800, yes. You don't know how to read, do you?
I'm quite proficient at reading. It seems, though, that you could
use a course on thinking.
--
Tiger

"All intelligent faith in God has behind it a background of humble
agnosticism."
- Harry Emerson Fosdick
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-11 11:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
My statement regards a higher quality of life thanks to
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean
drinking water".
And that's how you define "quality of life?" LOL.
In 1800, yes. You don't know how to read, do you?
I'm quite proficient at reading. It seems, though, that you could
use a course on thinking.
Fallacy of nothing but objections, noted. Again, thanks to science,
quality of life has improved. Longevity is a result of a higher
quality of life. This is all due to science, not religion.
Tiger
2003-12-11 11:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
My statement regards a higher quality of life thanks to
science: "improved public health, including sanitary sewers
and clean drinking water".
And that's how you define "quality of life?" LOL.
In 1800, yes. You don't know how to read, do you?
I'm quite proficient at reading. It seems, though, that you
could use a course on thinking.
Fallacy of nothing but objections, noted. Again, thanks to
science, quality of life has improved. Longevity is a result of a
higher quality of life. This is all due to science, not religion.
LOL. You don't know history either. Who do you think built all the
schools and hospitals in America? Nevermind, you have a clear agenda
to discredit religion. No problem. Have at it. Just don't expect
to be taken seriously with the logic you've displayed here.
--
Tiger

"All intelligent faith in God has behind it a background of humble
agnosticism."
- Harry Emerson Fosdick
Billy Goat
2003-12-11 17:25:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger
LOL. You don't know history either. Who do you think built all the
schools and hospitals in America?
Masons.

--Billy
Therion Ware
2003-12-11 18:08:29 UTC
Permalink
On 11 Dec 2003 09:25:00 -0800 in alt.atheism, Billy Goat
(***@my-deja.com (Billy Goat)) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
Post by Billy Goat
Post by Tiger
LOL. You don't know history either. Who do you think built all the
schools and hospitals in America?
Masons.
I though they were the ones keeping the metric system down.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
Al Klein
2003-12-12 05:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Nevermind, you have a clear agenda to discredit religion.
No need - religion self-discredits.
Just don't expect to be taken seriously with the logic you've displayed here.
By you? Of course not. Only sane people take him seriously.
--
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your
Christ."
- Mohandas Gandhi
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
Tiger
2003-12-12 05:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Klein
Nevermind, you have a clear agenda to discredit religion.
No need - religion self-discredits.
Yes, and your opinion is so highly esteemed everywhere on usenet.
LOL.
Post by Al Klein
Just don't expect to be taken seriously with the logic you've
displayed here.
By you? Of course not. Only sane people take him seriously.
Al, coming from you, that's the highest of compliments. It's almost
as good as being called "demonic" by John W.
--
Tiger

"All intelligent faith in God has behind it a background of humble
agnosticism."
- Harry Emerson Fosdick
angelicusrex
2003-12-12 06:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Klein
Nevermind, you have a clear agenda to discredit religion.
No need - religion self-discredits.
Then why is this person helping the discreditation along? Apparently
religion doesn't self-discredit enough for the atheists...it needs some
violent pushes here and there. I wonder when the atheists get in power,will
they burn eight year old Christian girls at the stake just for being
Christian and having caused so much trouble in the world? Or maybe they'll
just stick 'em all in Gulags. Re-Education camps?

Saint
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-12 08:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by angelicusrex
Post by Al Klein
Nevermind, you have a clear agenda to discredit religion.
No need - religion self-discredits.
Then why is this person helping the discreditation along?
Again, religion self-discredits. You have made that clear in your own
posts. Take your history of dishonesty, for example. In one post,
you claim you aren't a Christian and you aren't posting to
proselytize. Yet, in another post you talk about worshipping Christ
as God. You consistently contradict yourself in post after post.
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-12 08:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger
Post by Al Klein
Nevermind, you have a clear agenda to discredit religion.
No need - religion self-discredits.
Yes, and your opinion is so highly esteemed everywhere on usenet.
LOL.
Post by Al Klein
Just don't expect to be taken seriously with the logic you've displayed here.
By you? Of course not. Only sane people take him seriously.
Al, coming from you, that's the highest of compliments. It's almost
as good as being called "demonic" by John W.
Tiger, please show me evidence that religion has helped the world more
than science.

Uncle Davey
2003-12-11 13:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
My statement regards a higher quality of life thanks to
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean
drinking water".
And that's how you define "quality of life?" LOL.
In 1800, yes. You don't know how to read, do you?
I'm quite proficient at reading. It seems, though, that you could
use a course on thinking.
Fallacy of nothing but objections, noted. Again, thanks to science,
quality of life has improved. Longevity is a result of a higher
quality of life. This is all due to science, not religion.
Fallacy of calling everything a fallacy of something or other, noted.
Quality of life means more money to spend on food and luxuries, and labour
saving devices devised by scientists. In America, which has the number one
quality of life, this has resulted in large numbers of people being morbidly
obese. Their life expectancy is not large, much larger is their expectancy
of getting diabetes and having their feet amputated. We have science, not
religion, to thank for those foot amputations.

Best,

Uncle Davey
Steve Zodiac
2003-12-12 01:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Davey
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
My statement regards a higher quality of life thanks to
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean
drinking water".
And that's how you define "quality of life?" LOL.
In 1800, yes. You don't know how to read, do you?
I'm quite proficient at reading. It seems, though, that you could
use a course on thinking.
Fallacy of nothing but objections, noted. Again, thanks to science,
quality of life has improved. Longevity is a result of a higher
quality of life. This is all due to science, not religion.
Fallacy of calling everything a fallacy of something or other, noted.
Quality of life means more money to spend on food and luxuries, and labour
saving devices devised by scientists. In America, which has the number one
quality of life, this has resulted in large numbers of people being morbidly
obese. Their life expectancy is not large, much larger is their expectancy
of getting diabetes and having their feet amputated. We have science, not
religion, to thank for those foot amputations.
Best,
Uncle Davey
Religion, has nothing to say about the capitalistic persuits that employ
many Christians. Capitalism is what consumes the earths finite resources.
The most gluttenous of all consumers are the Americans. <5% of the worlds
population sucking up 25% of the worlds energy. They owe their standard of
living and their superpower status to cheap energy. It's tough however for
the americans to stay at the top and this is why it is critical for the US
to secure their lifeblood supply. Hence the erroeous war in Iraq where the
US pre-emptively does what it wants to secure access to the finest and
second largest supply of oil in the world. All of this can be done blatently
under the guise of Christian thought where god is always on the side of the
US and the rest of the world is evil and must be dealt with. Its rather
sickening actually that god should have such a role in so many wars.

Steve Zodiac
Tiger
2003-12-12 00:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Zodiac
Religion, has nothing to say about the capitalistic persuits that
employ many Christians.
No, religion has nothing to say about anything. However, there are
some deeply religious persons who speak out against unjust
capitalistic pursuits...read anything by Tony Campolo.
--
Tiger

"All intelligent faith in God has behind it a background of humble
agnosticism."
- Harry Emerson Fosdick
Al Klein
2003-12-12 05:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger
No, religion has nothing to say about anything. However, there are
some deeply religious persons who speak out against unjust
capitalistic pursuits.
And many more who use religion to take advantage of others.
--
"I can't activate two neurons simultaneously, and I vote"
- The theistic majority
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
Tiger
2003-12-12 05:50:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Klein
Post by Tiger
No, religion has nothing to say about anything. However, there
are some deeply religious persons who speak out against unjust
capitalistic pursuits.
And many more who use religion to take advantage of others.
And of course, religion is to blame. Al, you and John W. should be
locked in a rubber room together. I'd pay to watch the festivities.
--
Tiger

"All intelligent faith in God has behind it a background of humble
agnosticism." - Harry Emerson Fosdick
glenn
2003-12-12 01:47:15 UTC
Permalink
can anyone tell me why this thread is being put into other groups?
Jeannette
2003-12-12 02:00:16 UTC
Permalink
"glenn" <***@webtv.net> wrote in message news:28074-3FD91E23-***@storefull-2233.public.lawso
n.webtv.net...
: can anyone tell me why this thread is being put
into other groups?

Because people crosspost to stir up division.

Jeannette

--
"The world offers many options but eternity
only offers two"
:
Mark and Bev Tindall
2003-12-12 02:47:29 UTC
Permalink
########################################################

POSTING GUIDELINES FOR alt.christnet.christianlife

DRAFT -1 5/12/03


1. ACC IS A PUBLIC UNMODERATED FORUM

2 ACC = alt.christian.christianlife which BY ITS TITLE is dedicated to
ANYTHING which comes up during CHRISTIAN LIFE.

3. ALL Christians from ALL denominations are welcome on this NG - Catholic,
protestant, orthodox, seventh day adventists, fundamentalists, liberals,
whatever!!!!

4. Please adhere to basic NG etiquette.

5. There are NO LEADERS of this unmoderated forum. All are equal.


###################################################################
twice-born child
2003-12-12 02:06:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by glenn
can anyone tell me why this thread is being put into other groups?
Yes I can and will be glad to tell you my friend.

A person who hates god declared war on this news group some time ago and now
anything goes.

Be careful to whom you set yourself in agreement with when it comes to
spiritual things.

Here's a scripture for your consideration.

Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor
of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the
apostles forth a little space; And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take
heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before
these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a
number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and
all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to naught. After
this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away
much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed
him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let
them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to
nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found
even to fight against God.

(Acts 5:34-39 KJV)



Let the River flow,

TBC
Mark and Bev Tindall
2003-12-12 02:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by twice-born child
Yes I can and will be glad to tell you my friend.
A person who hates god declared war on this news group some time ago and
now anything goes.
Really? That's the propaganda spred by Grizzle Guts and Vera 666!

A victim of Grizzle Guts wrote to me. (Name and other identifying
facts are snipped as a result of fear of reprisal by Grizzle Guts, Vera 666
and their band of COWARDLY THUGS!!!)

THEIR NEXT VICTIM COULD BE YOU!!!!

#############################################################

................Contention-It's a spirit he relishes in and though they say
they block, he calls it his punishement, then he writes to them on a regular
basis, there has never been a time I have seen him block anyone for real, it
is just to appear as though he has authority, or so he believes, and to weed
out people that won't do as he says.

I had a letter where he wrote ******** but he didn't know ****** was my
friend, he told ***** that even in the begining it amazed him how he could
tell people to do stupid things, how he could come up with something wild
and they would follow him, he gets a kick out of it.

....... if he really believed in God then he could never do what he has done
to people, I am not talking about the letters, lies, or manipulations or
such you see on group. I am talking about hurting people very deeply and
causing them to flee from the Lord Jesus. Once there was a lonely but very
lovely lady, we spoke in emails a lot, she left and would never come back to
acc. I think she gave up being a Christian because Griz and the crew had
told her that she showed (griz told her this first) that she showed no
evidence that the HSpirt was within her. It hurt her very badly.

This coming from a drug addict that lives like a hermit in the mountains of
Canada and works a few months out of the year picking up trash, no he is not
a camp councelor! He is a liar and a manipulator, I saw posts on google
where people all over the ng sites like Supernews and such talk about the
tyrant of ACC, he LOVEs it. :(

In any event, I tried to tell her that indeed the HS was with her because
she called to Jesus to be Lord of her life, and growth would come with time,
but as she told me, more letters from the discerning Godly Griz came and
from the crew as well, it destroyed a new Christian, she felt unworthy and
unable to go to glory, all because of the like of a ng. And the constant
Fervent emails, I first met him years and years ago and sometimes he would
pop up in my msn, and wanted me to talk sex with him, he is a porn addict,
not converted as he says, he still does it as often as he did before,
repents and goes awhile without doing it and then does it again and repents,
a cycle. I like Fervent though, he is a nice guy, but part of the
destruction crew. I pray for him and for Griz and the rest, but I hate to
see them continue in their destuction of some mighty fine people. :(

I feel that Christians, no matter where they go in life, even a pc, impact
people, if you wouldn't say it to their face why say it to them on a pc? We
are responsible for how we act, each word is written in heaven, so why then
do the things this building crew does?

I was literally cursed at by Vera, a supposed sweet and innocent Christian.
Whom uses that web site of hers to read and record others by the way, she is
trying to get an email system setup, that she will have access to so they
can use peoples personal emails to keep them inline or destroy them I
imagine, yet she says she will only have the master password, well isn't
that just the same as having the password to your mail? Sooner or later they
will get people to use her email service, just imagine the destruction!?

Griz is a mastor manipulator, he uses the Holy word of God as if he wrote it
just for him, just so he could be leader. No one discerns but he either. If
you do not follow him or show any ideas that you might not follow him, he
may not-I believe because of my posts about him- do this so much on group
anymore, as he does in emails, and threats. I have many a time been the
target of them, they do much harm to people in Christ and to people that are
not in Christ yet, you would think they surely would run far away .....
Advantage is what he looks for, and it seems ludacrous that we are talking
about a ng, a person on a pc. But people are hurt or harmed by him, even
from a distance, God sees it though, and someday he will answer for what he
has done. .....
the bashing you get is not fun. Your lied about, threatened with him
calling your isp and the government to say lies about stealing identities or
using your pc to gather personal info like social security, or spreading
harmful virus' and such, there are no lengths this man won't go to. ..... He
goes on and on until you get tired of it and move on somewhere else. Or he
destroyes your character online with anyone he can email. ...I consider this
man dangerous, slanderous and harrassing! ... does he have the right to see
me lied about, to slander my good name, and harrass me .... or whatever it
might be? Emphatically, NO> ..... I am glad to see you two trying to stop
Griz and cohorts! Someone needs to, Lord knows I tried but I didn't have
enough people to back me, my friends think it is a waist of time. He keeps
all letters and stuff and threatens to expose you, one of his many talents.
...... (Lord knows how many identities he and his crew have-he admitted to
me once, and so did some other of them) ..... I pray you do well ......
funny, he always said that God said if you are not heard move on ..... all
the tireless attempts to get him off my back. I just love to love the Lord
and talk about what he does in my life, and he ruined it for a lot of us. He
says GO because "insert bible quote here"...yet he never takes his own
advice even when scripturally shown his mistakes, all he cares about is he
is some kind of SAGE for the AGES on acc and ruler of all people that are
"TRULY" in Christ. I feel sick when I use the name Christ and his in the
same line :P

If you don't go your called demon possessed -he discerned. Do you want to
know a little about what he did to my character? It hurt me very
badly................. he ruined me basically, through email to other people
and had some people pretend to be my friends so they could gather info. He
does this a lot.......be very careful.

..... I was a fool when he first came here and I believed as a new born
again Christian that he cared and was more wise than I was ....Would love to
see him eat some of what he has done to me and others as reward for his
destructive service. Can't say that I didn't forgive him because I did and I
stayed and tried to get along with him at least enough to remain. So when
that failed he destroyed my character and made everyone feel sorry for
little ol' me, and lied. Though I had forgiven him, I still am a human, he
deserves some of what he dishes ........ Another person destroyed by the
building crew! ....


#########################################################


THE FOLLOWING SITE & "CHAT ROOM THREE / Chat3" ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH
THIS UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL CHRISTIANS AND DOES NOT REPRESENT ACC
alt.christnet.christianlife IN ANY MANNER WHATSOEVER!!!

It is owned by the Evil Usurper Vera 666 and is CENSORED by her!!!

BE WARNED!!!!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Where Jesus is BORED & censored by Vera 666!!!
Post by twice-born child
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de
Too much Kristyun Lite and no Christian substance!


****************************************************************************
****************

ACC alt.christnet.christianlife IS A PUBLIC UNMODERATED FORUM

ALL Christians from ALL denominations are welcome on this NG - Catholic,
protestant, orthodox, seventh day adventists, fundamentalists, liberals,
whatever!!!! This includes ALL the Christians plonked and persecuted by
Grizzle Guts (Cwaig), Vera (666) and the brown shirt COWARDS such as ...

- Woz
- Donna Kupp
- David Matthieu P.P.
- Brenda Kent
- David Chariot
- Annie Asher
- Yusufallah
- Ninure Saunders
- Glenn
- T Grasso
- Nevermore
- Michael Christ
- NoName



You do NOT have to bow to the authoritarian anal retentive Grizzle Guts'
COWARDS!!!!!

Grizzle Guts, Vera (666) and the brown shirt building team are overthrown!



* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

THE FOLLOWING SITE & "CHAT ROOM THREE" ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THIS
UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL CHRISTIANS AND DOES NOT REPRESENT ACC
alt.christnet.christianlife IN ANY MANNER WHATSOEVER!!!

It is owned by the Evil Usurper Vera 666 and is CENSORED by her!!!

BE WARNED!!!!




* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Where Jesus is BORED & censored by Vera 666!!!
Post by twice-born child
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de
Too much Kristyun Lite and no Christian substance!


Chat Room Three is NOT associated with his UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL
CHRISTIANS alt.christnet.christianlife.



* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

II Corinthians 10:4 -5 " ...for the weapons of our warfare are NOT WORLDLY
but have DIVINE POWER TO DESTROY STRONGHOLDS. WE DESTROY ARGUMENTS AND
EVERY PROUD OBSTACLE TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, AND TAKE EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE
to obey Christ ..."

************************
Mark and Bev Tindall
2003-12-12 02:46:47 UTC
Permalink
"glenn" <***@webtv.net> wrote:

A victim of Grizzle Guts and Vera 666 wrote to me. (Name and other
identifying
facts are snipped as a result of fear of reprisal by Grizzle Guts, Vera 666
and their band of COWARDLY THUGS!!!)

THEIR NEXT VICTIM COULD BE YOU!!!!

#############################################################

................Contention-It's a spirit he relishes in and though they say
they block, he calls it his punishement, then he writes to them on a regular
basis, there has never been a time I have seen him block anyone for real, it
is just to appear as though he has authority, or so he believes, and to weed
out people that won't do as he says.

I had a letter where he wrote ******** but he didn't know ****** was my
friend, he told ***** that even in the begining it amazed him how he could
tell people to do stupid things, how he could come up with something wild
and they would follow him, he gets a kick out of it.

....... if he really believed in God then he could never do what he has done
to people, I am not talking about the letters, lies, or manipulations or
such you see on group. I am talking about hurting people very deeply and
causing them to flee from the Lord Jesus. Once there was a lonely but very
lovely lady, we spoke in emails a lot, she left and would never come back to
acc. I think she gave up being a Christian because Griz and the crew had
told her that she showed (griz told her this first) that she showed no
evidence that the HSpirt was within her. It hurt her very badly.

This coming from a drug addict that lives like a hermit in the mountains of
Canada and works a few months out of the year picking up trash, no he is not
a camp councelor! He is a liar and a manipulator, I saw posts on google
where people all over the ng sites like Supernews and such talk about the
tyrant of ACC, he LOVEs it. :(

In any event, I tried to tell her that indeed the HS was with her because
she called to Jesus to be Lord of her life, and growth would come with time,
but as she told me, more letters from the discerning Godly Griz came and
from the crew as well, it destroyed a new Christian, she felt unworthy and
unable to go to glory, all because of the like of a ng. And the constant
Fervent emails, I first met him years and years ago and sometimes he would
pop up in my msn, and wanted me to talk sex with him, he is a porn addict,
not converted as he says, he still does it as often as he did before,
repents and goes awhile without doing it and then does it again and repents,
a cycle. I like Fervent though, he is a nice guy, but part of the
destruction crew. I pray for him and for Griz and the rest, but I hate to
see them continue in their destuction of some mighty fine people. :(

I feel that Christians, no matter where they go in life, even a pc, impact
people, if you wouldn't say it to their face why say it to them on a pc? We
are responsible for how we act, each word is written in heaven, so why then
do the things this building crew does?

I was literally cursed at by Vera, a supposed sweet and innocent Christian.
Whom uses that web site of hers to read and record others by the way, she is
trying to get an email system setup, that she will have access to so they
can use peoples personal emails to keep them inline or destroy them I
imagine, yet she says she will only have the master password, well isn't
that just the same as having the password to your mail? Sooner or later they
will get people to use her email service, just imagine the destruction!?

Griz is a mastor manipulator, he uses the Holy word of God as if he wrote it
just for him, just so he could be leader. No one discerns but he either. If
you do not follow him or show any ideas that you might not follow him, he
may not-I believe because of my posts about him- do this so much on group
anymore, as he does in emails, and threats. I have many a time been the
target of them, they do much harm to people in Christ and to people that are
not in Christ yet, you would think they surely would run far away .....
Advantage is what he looks for, and it seems ludacrous that we are talking
about a ng, a person on a pc. But people are hurt or harmed by him, even
from a distance, God sees it though, and someday he will answer for what he
has done. .....
the bashing you get is not fun. Your lied about, threatened with him
calling your isp and the government to say lies about stealing identities or
using your pc to gather personal info like social security, or spreading
harmful virus' and such, there are no lengths this man won't go to. ..... He
goes on and on until you get tired of it and move on somewhere else. Or he
destroyes your character online with anyone he can email. ...I consider this
man dangerous, slanderous and harrassing! ... does he have the right to see
me lied about, to slander my good name, and harrass me .... or whatever it
might be? Emphatically, NO> ..... I am glad to see you two trying to stop
Griz and cohorts! Someone needs to, Lord knows I tried but I didn't have
enough people to back me, my friends think it is a waist of time. He keeps
all letters and stuff and threatens to expose you, one of his many talents.
...... (Lord knows how many identities he and his crew have-he admitted to
me once, and so did some other of them) ..... I pray you do well ......
funny, he always said that God said if you are not heard move on ..... all
the tireless attempts to get him off my back. I just love to love the Lord
and talk about what he does in my life, and he ruined it for a lot of us. He
says GO because "insert bible quote here"...yet he never takes his own
advice even when scripturally shown his mistakes, all he cares about is he
is some kind of SAGE for the AGES on acc and ruler of all people that are
"TRULY" in Christ. I feel sick when I use the name Christ and his in the
same line :P

If you don't go your called demon possessed -he discerned. Do you want to
know a little about what he did to my character? It hurt me very
badly................. he ruined me basically, through email to other people
and had some people pretend to be my friends so they could gather info. He
does this a lot.......be very careful.

..... I was a fool when he first came here and I believed as a new born
again Christian that he cared and was more wise than I was ....Would love to
see him eat some of what he has done to me and others as reward for his
destructive service. Can't say that I didn't forgive him because I did and I
stayed and tried to get along with him at least enough to remain. So when
that failed he destroyed my character and made everyone feel sorry for
little ol' me, and lied. Though I had forgiven him, I still am a human, he
deserves some of what he dishes ........ Another person destroyed by the
building crew! ....


#########################################################


THE FOLLOWING SITE & "CHAT ROOM THREE / Chat3" ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH
THIS UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL CHRISTIANS AND DOES NOT REPRESENT ACC
alt.christnet.christianlife IN ANY MANNER WHATSOEVER!!!

It is owned by the Evil Usurper Vera 666 and is CENSORED by her!!!

BE WARNED!!!!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Where Jesus is BORED & censored by Vera 666!!!
Post by twice-born child
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de
Too much Kristyun Lite and no Christian substance!


****************************************************************************
****************

ACC alt.christnet.christianlife IS A PUBLIC UNMODERATED FORUM

ALL Christians from ALL denominations are welcome on this NG - Catholic,
protestant, orthodox, seventh day adventists, fundamentalists, liberals,
whatever!!!! This includes ALL the Christians plonked and persecuted by
Grizzle Guts (Cwaig), Vera (666) and the brown shirt COWARDS such as ...

- Woz
- Donna Kupp
- David Matthieu P.P.
- Brenda Kent
- David Chariot
- Annie Asher
- Yusufallah
- Ninure Saunders
- Glenn
- T Grasso
- Nevermore
- Michael Christ
- NoName



You do NOT have to bow to the authoritarian anal retentive Grizzle Guts'
COWARDS!!!!!

Grizzle Guts, Vera (666) and the brown shirt building team are overthrown!



* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

THE FOLLOWING SITE & "CHAT ROOM THREE" ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THIS
UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL CHRISTIANS AND DOES NOT REPRESENT ACC
alt.christnet.christianlife IN ANY MANNER WHATSOEVER!!!

It is owned by the Evil Usurper Vera 666 and is CENSORED by her!!!

BE WARNED!!!!




* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Where Jesus is BORED & censored by Vera 666!!!
Post by twice-born child
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de
Too much Kristyun Lite and no Christian substance!


Chat Room Three is NOT associated with his UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL
CHRISTIANS alt.christnet.christianlife.



* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

II Corinthians 10:4 -5 " ...for the weapons of our warfare are NOT WORLDLY
but have DIVINE POWER TO DESTROY STRONGHOLDS. WE DESTROY ARGUMENTS AND
EVERY PROUD OBSTACLE TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, AND TAKE EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE
to obey Christ ..."

************************
Uncle Davey
2003-12-12 07:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Davey
Post by Uncle Davey
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
My statement regards a higher quality of life thanks to
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean
drinking water".
And that's how you define "quality of life?" LOL.
In 1800, yes. You don't know how to read, do you?
I'm quite proficient at reading. It seems, though, that you could
use a course on thinking.
Fallacy of nothing but objections, noted. Again, thanks to science,
quality of life has improved. Longevity is a result of a higher
quality of life. This is all due to science, not religion.
Fallacy of calling everything a fallacy of something or other, noted.
Quality of life means more money to spend on food and luxuries, and labour
saving devices devised by scientists. In America, which has the number one
quality of life, this has resulted in large numbers of people being
morbidly
Post by Uncle Davey
obese. Their life expectancy is not large, much larger is their expectancy
of getting diabetes and having their feet amputated. We have science, not
religion, to thank for those foot amputations.
Best,
Uncle Davey
Religion, has nothing to say about the capitalistic persuits that employ
many Christians. Capitalism is what consumes the earths finite resources.
The most gluttenous of all consumers are the Americans. <5% of the worlds
population sucking up 25% of the worlds energy. They owe their standard of
living and their superpower status to cheap energy. It's tough however for
the americans to stay at the top and this is why it is critical for the US
to secure their lifeblood supply. Hence the erroeous war in Iraq where the
US pre-emptively does what it wants to secure access to the finest and
second largest supply of oil in the world. All of this can be done blatently
under the guise of Christian thought where god is always on the side of the
US and the rest of the world is evil and must be dealt with. Its rather
sickening actually that god should have such a role in so many wars.
Steve Zodiac
I don't think that oil was the reason for this war, directly.

It's not that we need their oil, we can do a great deal with rapeseed oil,
if we could even be bothered to change one leetle excise law so that
governments could still get their PRT from bio-diesel.

It's more that they are our sworn enemies, (atheists and christians alike,
they see atheism as an extension of christianity) and therefore what makes
them rich gets ploughed into hurting us.

Would you rather have a rich enemy or a poor enemy?

Saudi Arabia knows this, hence to stay rich, they try to be friendly.
Nonetheless the extremists in their own camp are even willing to topple
their own Royal family in order to gain control of the resources and dictate
policy as to how the funds from these resources are used, and then we can
expect a lot more nine-elevens.

The Islamic view of God is very different to the Western view of God, so
much so that they want to attack and fight us. Shall we defend ourselves or
not?

Best,

Uncle Davey 100% behind George Bush.
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-12 08:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Davey
The Islamic view of God is very different to the Western view of God
That's a common misperception spread by Church leaders. In reality,
if one studies the two "views" side by side, they are almost
identical.
Uncle Davey
2003-12-12 08:25:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Uncle Davey
The Islamic view of God is very different to the Western view of God
That's a common misperception spread by Church leaders. In reality,
if one studies the two "views" side by side, they are almost
identical.
In what way would you call them identical?

Uncle Davey
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-12 08:40:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Davey
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Uncle Davey
The Islamic view of God is very different to the Western view of God
That's a common misperception spread by Church leaders. In
reality,
Post by Uncle Davey
Post by Li Mu Bai
if one studies the two "views" side by side, they are almost
identical.
In what way would you call them identical?
Take the aspect of "submission" for example. Christians talk about
submitting to Christ and God, while muslim leaders ask their adherents
to submit to Allah.
Straight John Bull
2003-12-11 08:02:55 UTC
Permalink
Isn't it God's will that there are doctors? :)
Isn't it God's will that there are whores, perverts, murderers, thieves,
liars, fornicators adulterers etc, etc?

Children with crippling polio, and all the other childhood diseases that
wipe out millions of kids throughout the world?
eighth octave
2003-12-01 06:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Constance Vigilant
Do I detect a Galen in our midsts?
Constance, do you realize that doctors have saved more lives than your God has?
Post by Constance Vigilant
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
You don't love anyone.
eighth octave
2003-12-01 06:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
You obviously have no life experience, since that's not what happens at all.
If patients cannot pay then they don't get treated in most parts of the
world. The Bible tells it like it is when we see the old girl handing over
her life savings to doctors who don't know how to help her any better than
the next man.
They are all a bunch of sharlatans, and their morals are worse than hookers,
who will give freebies occasionally.
I heard of something called Hookers Doctorin', and I thought that was about
right.
They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their collective
jejeunum.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Typical. Why should you meet your own needs? Somebody should take care
of you. You are so special, other people should feel privileged to work
for you for free, to give you the fruits of their labor free of charge.
Remember that when your paycheck is due, sweets.
That's not what she's all about. She's against medicine, doctors, and
all of it. She's one of those Christians who advocates withholding
medicine from their children, and starving them to death, too. You
read about people like Constance all the time in the news. They
usually end up behind bars.
Zsarnok
2003-12-06 18:27:35 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
You obviously have no life experience, since that's not what happens at all.
If patients cannot pay then they don't get treated in most parts of the
world. The Bible tells it like it is when we see the old girl handing over
her life savings to doctors who don't know how to help her any better than
the next man.
They are all a bunch of sharlatans, and their morals are worse than hookers,
who will give freebies occasionally.
I heard of something called Hookers Doctorin', and I thought that was about
right.
They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their collective
jejeunum.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Typical. Why should you meet your own needs? Somebody should take care
of you. You are so special, other people should feel privileged to work
for you for free, to give you the fruits of their labor free of charge.
Remember that when your paycheck is due, sweets.
That's not what she's all about. She's against medicine, doctors, and
all of it. She's one of those Christians who advocates withholding
medicine from their children, and starving them to death, too. You
read about people like Constance all the time in the news. They
usually end up behind bars.
Only after the children become permanently ill, crippled, or die.
Thanks for the info.

Zsarnok
Constance Vigilant
2003-12-07 01:43:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zsarnok
<snip>
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
You obviously have no life experience, since that's not what happens at all.
If patients cannot pay then they don't get treated in most parts of the
world. The Bible tells it like it is when we see the old girl handing over
her life savings to doctors who don't know how to help her any better than
the next man.
They are all a bunch of sharlatans, and their morals are worse than hookers,
who will give freebies occasionally.
I heard of something called Hookers Doctorin', and I thought that was about
right.
They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their collective
jejeunum.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Typical. Why should you meet your own needs? Somebody should take care
of you. You are so special, other people should feel privileged to work
for you for free, to give you the fruits of their labor free of charge.
Remember that when your paycheck is due, sweets.
That's not what she's all about. She's against medicine, doctors, and
all of it. She's one of those Christians who advocates withholding
medicine from their children, and starving them to death, too. You
read about people like Constance all the time in the news. They
usually end up behind bars.
Only after the children become permanently ill, crippled, or die.
Thanks for the info.
Zsarnok
Sure take your kids to the doctor, but don't be surprised if they become
permanently ill, crippled or die anyway.

Only as long as you took them to the doctor, you don't go behind bars, and
funnily enough, neither does the doctor.

In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Zsarnok
2003-12-09 02:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Constance Vigilant
Post by Zsarnok
<snip>
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
You obviously have no life experience, since that's not what happens at
all.
Post by Zsarnok
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
If patients cannot pay then they don't get treated in most parts of the
world. The Bible tells it like it is when we see the old girl handing
over
Post by Zsarnok
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
her life savings to doctors who don't know how to help her any better
than
Post by Zsarnok
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
the next man.
They are all a bunch of sharlatans, and their morals are worse than
hookers,
Post by Zsarnok
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
who will give freebies occasionally.
I heard of something called Hookers Doctorin', and I thought that was
about
Post by Zsarnok
Post by eighth octave
Post by Zsarnok
Post by Constance Vigilant
right.
They can take their hypocritic oath and shove it up their collective
jejeunum.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Typical. Why should you meet your own needs? Somebody should take care
of you. You are so special, other people should feel privileged to work
for you for free, to give you the fruits of their labor free of charge.
Remember that when your paycheck is due, sweets.
That's not what she's all about. She's against medicine, doctors, and
all of it. She's one of those Christians who advocates withholding
medicine from their children, and starving them to death, too. You
read about people like Constance all the time in the news. They
usually end up behind bars.
Only after the children become permanently ill, crippled, or die.
Thanks for the info.
Zsarnok
Sure take your kids to the doctor, but don't be surprised if they become
permanently ill, crippled or die anyway.
Only as long as you took them to the doctor, you don't go behind bars, and
funnily enough, neither does the doctor.
In Love,
Constance Vigilant
Not worth the effort of a response.

Zsarnok
eighth octave
2003-12-01 06:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Constance Vigilant
If patients cannot pay then they don't get treated in most parts of the
world.
Wrong.
John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
2003-11-30 02:34:20 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive:yes

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate Value"
<***@for-.yourself.com> wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?

His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.

Shame on you.

John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness. And
since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally ill. So
whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an omnipotent
God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most likely Jesus was
just a man who suffered from some sort of mental illness.
Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral one,
Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that encourages
real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that discourages
morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages its adherents
to teach falsehoods as the truth.
Copyright 2003, Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here.
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=323
Zsarnok
2003-11-30 03:26:00 UTC
Permalink
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.

Zsarnok

John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate Value"
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness. And
since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally ill. So
whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an omnipotent
God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most likely Jesus was
just a man who suffered from some sort of mental illness.
Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral one,
Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that encourages
real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that discourages
morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages its adherents
to teach falsehoods as the truth.
Copyright 2003, Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here.
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=323
John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
2003-11-30 06:47:56 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive:yes
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:26:00 GMT, Zsarnok <***@nok.earth.link.net>
wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.

And do not tell me when or how to preach.

And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may well be your last
opportunity to worship the King of Kings. You may not live to see
another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you planned.

Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume to play with
the God of Creation.

God bless,

John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate Value"
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness. And
since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally ill. So
whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an omnipotent
God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most likely Jesus was
just a man who suffered from some sort of mental illness.
Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral one,
Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that encourages
real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that discourages
morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages its adherents
to teach falsehoods as the truth.
Copyright 2003, Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here.
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=323
Dan Holzman
2003-11-30 17:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
One has to wonder if dear Mr. Weatherly goes through life addressing
everyone with whom he has a dispute in such a manner. Not to mention
how he fares at traffic crossigs.
galia
2003-11-30 17:43:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Holzman
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
One has to wonder if dear Mr. Weatherly goes through life addressing
everyone with whom he has a dispute in such a manner. Not to mention
how he fares at traffic crossigs.
He does use this term quite frequently...
Apparently, as he puts it, he has a special gift :-)......
and he just comes home with a bloody nose once in a while....
John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
2003-12-02 10:47:12 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive:yes
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:43:51 -0500, "galia" <***@jims.com> wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
Post by galia
Post by Dan Holzman
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
One has to wonder if dear Mr. Weatherly goes through life addressing
everyone with whom he has a dispute in such a manner. Not to mention
how he fares at traffic crossigs.
He does use this term quite frequently...
Apparently, as he puts it, he has a special gift :-)......
and he just comes home with a bloody nose once in a while....
Is galia now on the side of the demons? Revealing his/her true self?
I'm not surprised!

And as I've said, I talk to demons that way, not to people. And the
guy who gave me the bloody nose got worse in return. I karate kicked
him in his kidneys. I am sure he pissed blood for 2 weeks. My feet
never left the ground; his did.


John W
Zsarnok
2003-11-30 23:12:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Holzman
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
One has to wonder if dear Mr. Weatherly goes through life addressing
everyone with whom he has a dispute in such a manner. Not to mention
how he fares at traffic crossigs.
Maybe he ran into a conscientious objector and now hides out in usenet.

Zsarnok
John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
2003-12-02 10:44:58 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive:yes
On 30 Nov 2003 12:33:37 -0500, ***@panix.com (Dan Holzman) wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Dan Holzman
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
One has to wonder if dear Mr. Weatherly goes through life addressing
everyone with whom he has a dispute in such a manner. Not to mention
how he fares at traffic crossigs.
Not everyone; just demons.


John W
w***@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc
2003-12-02 14:14:25 UTC
Permalink
In <***@4ax.com>, on 12/02/2003
at 02:44 AM, John W <john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> said nothing of
consequence & wanted the world to know that.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Dan Holzman
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
One has to wonder if dear Mr. Weatherly goes through life addressing
everyone with whom he has a dispute in such a manner. Not to mention
how he fares at traffic crossigs.
Not everyone; just demons.
Given your display on a less than passing grip on reality, based on your
posts of course, you must get a sunburned tounge if the sun is out & you
are outside a building. You see, your apparent version of demon is so
vauge, that the ambulance paramedic helping the cardiac victim in the
middle of Jefferson Blvd. could be a demon according to you. If that
person is in fact a demon, they are still a better person than you have
demonstrated yourself to be. That there are no demons is a fact that will
always elude you. You & Martin Luther have a lot in common in that beleif,
but he was wrong as well. If there are anything resmbling demons, they are
gods, gods of a lower order to be sure, but gods for alll of that. Or are
you saying that all the god claims are real & your mythologhy allows you
to attempt to denigrate them by calling them demons???

In any case, it., like you, just isn't that important.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
John W
walksalone who, if he wanted to display his ignarance about any given
subject, would likely model his displays on john w's. Being I prefer to
learn, john w can only be a negative example. Thank all the gods that
never were that my elders taught me to think & question, unlike john's.
John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
2003-12-03 00:15:08 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive:yes
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:14:25 GMT,
***@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
Post by w***@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc
consequence & wanted the world to know that.
Ever SHRIEKING for attention, eh, Satan?

John W
Post by w***@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Dan Holzman
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
One has to wonder if dear Mr. Weatherly goes through life addressing
everyone with whom he has a dispute in such a manner. Not to mention
how he fares at traffic crossigs.
Not everyone; just demons.
Given your display on a less than passing grip on reality, based on your
posts of course, you must get a sunburned tounge if the sun is out & you
are outside a building. You see, your apparent version of demon is so
vauge, that the ambulance paramedic helping the cardiac victim in the
middle of Jefferson Blvd. could be a demon according to you. If that
person is in fact a demon, they are still a better person than you have
demonstrated yourself to be. That there are no demons is a fact that will
always elude you. You & Martin Luther have a lot in common in that beleif,
but he was wrong as well. If there are anything resmbling demons, they are
gods, gods of a lower order to be sure, but gods for alll of that. Or are
you saying that all the god claims are real & your mythologhy allows you
to attempt to denigrate them by calling them demons???
In any case, it., like you, just isn't that important.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
John W
walksalone who, if he wanted to display his ignarance about any given
subject, would likely model his displays on john w's. Being I prefer to
learn, john w can only be a negative example. Thank all the gods that
never were that my elders taught me to think & question, unlike john's.
Zsarnok
2003-11-30 23:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Do not tell me what to do or how to do it.

Do not threaten me like a little coward, you can't back it up.

There is no God.

Zsarnok

John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
And do not tell me when or how to preach.
And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may well be your last
opportunity to worship the King of Kings. You may not live to see
another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you planned.
Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume to play with
the God of Creation.
God bless,
John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate Value"
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness. And
since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally ill. So
whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an omnipotent
God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most likely Jesus was
just a man who suffered from some sort of mental illness.
Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral one,
Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that encourages
real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that discourages
morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages its adherents
to teach falsehoods as the truth.
Copyright 2003, Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here.
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=323
Nevermore
2003-12-01 05:07:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zsarnok
Do not tell me what to do or how to do it.
Do not threaten me like a little coward, you can't back it up.
There is no God.
Zsarnok
Hehehehe...I love the way they feel free to issue threats on behalf of
an omnipotent being. Would God really need their help in that regard?
Post by Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy
Christmas, dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My
God is greater than your god, and we both know that. And do not tell
me when or how to preach. And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may
well be your last opportunity to worship the King of Kings. You may
not live to see another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you
planned. Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume
to play with the God of Creation. God bless, John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and
worked here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their
apologists present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of
"God's" superior morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is
the basic Christian belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral
belief or not? My answer is that this belief is not a moral one
because Jesus Christ, the God-Man described in the Bible (if he
really existed), would be a liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist.
Obviously a liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist couldn't be an
example of superior morality or "Christian" values. So there is no
real morality in the story of Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at
being an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in
the blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man,
he'd be a God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary
people that he was a man he would be a liar and on some level a
fraud. Jesus Christ wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a
hollow mockery of humanity. Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist,
that is a person who enjoys inflicting pain and suffering upon
himself. By experiencing life in First Century Palestine in all its
glory, Jesus would be inflicting pain, torture and violence upon
himself. He even allowed himself to be whipped and tortured to
death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an example of morality, it
is an example of psychotic behavior. If experiencing such
suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose to let others
suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and suffering
but he made sure everybody else suffered as well. Would anybody
consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a painful
disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness.
And since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally
ill. So whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an
omnipotent God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most
likely Jesus was just a man who suffered from some sort of mental
illness. Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral
one, Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that
encourages real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that
discourages morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages
its adherents to teach falsehoods as the truth. Copyright 2003,
Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here. http://www.secweb.org/
asset.asp?AssetID=323
John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
2003-12-02 10:49:51 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive:yes
On 1 Dec 2003 05:07:29 GMT, Nevermore <***@thestake.net> wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Nevermore
Post by Zsarnok
Do not tell me what to do or how to do it.
Do not threaten me like a little coward, you can't back it up.
There is no God.
Zsarnok
Hehehehe...I love the way they feel free to issue threats on behalf of
an omnipotent being. Would God really need their help in that regard?
A warning does not constitute a threat. My God is more powerful than
your god. And you don't want to mess with me either, as a young punk
found out last month.

John W
Post by Nevermore
Post by Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy
Christmas, dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My
God is greater than your god, and we both know that. And do not tell
me when or how to preach. And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may
well be your last opportunity to worship the King of Kings. You may
not live to see another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you
planned. Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume
to play with the God of Creation. God bless, John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and
worked here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their
apologists present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of
"God's" superior morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is
the basic Christian belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral
belief or not? My answer is that this belief is not a moral one
because Jesus Christ, the God-Man described in the Bible (if he
really existed), would be a liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist.
Obviously a liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist couldn't be an
example of superior morality or "Christian" values. So there is no
real morality in the story of Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at
being an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in
the blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man,
he'd be a God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary
people that he was a man he would be a liar and on some level a
fraud. Jesus Christ wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a
hollow mockery of humanity. Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist,
that is a person who enjoys inflicting pain and suffering upon
himself. By experiencing life in First Century Palestine in all its
glory, Jesus would be inflicting pain, torture and violence upon
himself. He even allowed himself to be whipped and tortured to
death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an example of morality, it
is an example of psychotic behavior. If experiencing such
suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose to let others
suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and suffering
but he made sure everybody else suffered as well. Would anybody
consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a painful
disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness.
And since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally
ill. So whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an
omnipotent God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most
likely Jesus was just a man who suffered from some sort of mental
illness. Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral
one, Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that
encourages real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that
discourages morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages
its adherents to teach falsehoods as the truth. Copyright 2003,
Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here. http://www.secweb.org/
asset.asp?AssetID=323
w***@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc
2003-12-02 14:05:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Nevermore
Post by Zsarnok
Do not tell me what to do or how to do it.
Do not threaten me like a little coward, you can't back it up.
There is no God.
Zsarnok
Hehehehe...I love the way they feel free to issue threats on behalf of
an omnipotent being. Would God really need their help in that regard?
A warning does not constitute a threat. My God is more powerful than
So, if I inform you that you are going to the thirteenth underworld [&
your conducrt & posting history says you are], unless you accept the god
of that underworld as your only true god that is not a threat?? Like hell
its not jezebeth, its the same thing as my dad can beat up your dad, a
threat by implication. You see, we know your god is one sorry god if it
condones behaviour like yours, I don't believe you accept baby jhesus in
your heart. Now, yaweh, El, maybe so, maybe so. As to your god being m,ore
powerful, whichever god of the xian pantheon thatmight be, have evidence??
Real evidence?? Didn't think so, & whjen you attempt to dazzle everyone by
wquoting ytour grimorie, you will verify your lack of evidence.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
your god. And you don't want to mess with me either, as a young punk
found out last month.
So you say, & yet, no one here takes you serious. Would that have anything
to do with your cowardly [moral, ethical at minimum] behaviour & known
history of lying?? Your posting history, & the lies you told about it, are
pretty good reasons why no one believes you any more. If you don't like
not being believed, change your nasty habits.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
John W
Snip jezebeth's prior display of lack of knowledge & puffery.

walksalone who has come to accept that the truth about anything is not in
john w's grasp, might never have been, but definitely not now.
Zsarnok
2003-12-06 18:32:03 UTC
Permalink
What did you do? Ambush him in the dark and hit him on the back of the
head with a baseball bat?

Zsarnok

John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Nevermore
Post by Zsarnok
Do not tell me what to do or how to do it.
Do not threaten me like a little coward, you can't back it up.
There is no God.
Zsarnok
Hehehehe...I love the way they feel free to issue threats on behalf of
an omnipotent being. Would God really need their help in that regard?
A warning does not constitute a threat. My God is more powerful than
your god. And you don't want to mess with me either, as a young punk
found out last month.
John W
Post by Nevermore
Post by Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy
Christmas, dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My
God is greater than your god, and we both know that. And do not tell
me when or how to preach. And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may
well be your last opportunity to worship the King of Kings. You may
not live to see another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you
planned. Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume
to play with the God of Creation. God bless, John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and
worked here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their
apologists present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of
"God's" superior morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is
the basic Christian belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral
belief or not? My answer is that this belief is not a moral one
because Jesus Christ, the God-Man described in the Bible (if he
really existed), would be a liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist.
Obviously a liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist couldn't be an
example of superior morality or "Christian" values. So there is no
real morality in the story of Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at
being an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in
the blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man,
he'd be a God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary
people that he was a man he would be a liar and on some level a
fraud. Jesus Christ wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a
hollow mockery of humanity. Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist,
that is a person who enjoys inflicting pain and suffering upon
himself. By experiencing life in First Century Palestine in all its
glory, Jesus would be inflicting pain, torture and violence upon
himself. He even allowed himself to be whipped and tortured to
death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an example of morality, it
is an example of psychotic behavior. If experiencing such
suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose to let others
suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and suffering
but he made sure everybody else suffered as well. Would anybody
consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a painful
disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness.
And since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally
ill. So whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an
omnipotent God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most
likely Jesus was just a man who suffered from some sort of mental
illness. Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral
one, Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that
encourages real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that
discourages morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages
its adherents to teach falsehoods as the truth. Copyright 2003,
Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here. http://www.secweb.org/
asset.asp?AssetID=323
Zsarnok
2003-12-06 18:31:17 UTC
Permalink
The thing they believe in ought to have crispy fried about 6.3 billion
people this year alone, by their definitions of him, his attitude, and
everybody who doesn't believe.

Zsarnok
Post by Nevermore
Post by Zsarnok
Do not tell me what to do or how to do it.
Do not threaten me like a little coward, you can't back it up.
There is no God.
Zsarnok
Hehehehe...I love the way they feel free to issue threats on behalf of
an omnipotent being. Would God really need their help in that regard?
<snip>
John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
2003-12-02 10:48:49 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive:yes
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:11:15 GMT, Zsarnok <***@nok.earth.link.net>
wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
Do not tell me what to do or how to do it.
Do not threaten me like a little coward, you can't back it up.
There is no God.
What are you mumbling about?

John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
And do not tell me when or how to preach.
And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may well be your last
opportunity to worship the King of Kings. You may not live to see
another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you planned.
Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume to play with
the God of Creation.
God bless,
John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate Value"
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness. And
since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally ill. So
whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an omnipotent
God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most likely Jesus was
just a man who suffered from some sort of mental illness.
Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral one,
Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that encourages
real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that discourages
morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages its adherents
to teach falsehoods as the truth.
Copyright 2003, Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here.
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=323
Zsarnok
2003-12-06 18:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Truth. There is no God.

Zsarnok

John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
Do not tell me what to do or how to do it.
Do not threaten me like a little coward, you can't back it up.
There is no God.
What are you mumbling about?
John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
And do not tell me when or how to preach.
And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may well be your last
opportunity to worship the King of Kings. You may not live to see
another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you planned.
Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume to play with
the God of Creation.
God bless,
John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
John W
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate Value"
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness. And
since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally ill. So
whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an omnipotent
God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most likely Jesus was
just a man who suffered from some sort of mental illness.
Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral one,
Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that encourages
real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that discourages
morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages its adherents
to teach falsehoods as the truth.
Copyright 2003, Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here.
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=323
Stupendous Man
2003-12-02 03:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy
Christmas,
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
Post by Zsarnok
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
My god is the greatest of all, so I win again! Go Parse Tree!
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
And do not tell me when or how to preach.
And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may well be your last
opportunity to worship the King of Kings.
No, I post on ARW pretty much every day, and she's been eyeing me from
afar for over a year now.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
You may not live to see
another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you planned.
How insulting! Are you insinuating that I'm like Jason Biggs in
American Pie?
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume to play with
the God of Creation.
Are you talking about Ptah, now? Gosh, is he still around?
Zsarnok
2003-12-06 18:33:52 UTC
Permalink
You are so cute.

Zsarnok
Post by Zsarnok
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy
Christmas,
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
Post by Zsarnok
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
My god is the greatest of all, so I win again! Go Parse Tree!
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
And do not tell me when or how to preach.
And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may well be your last
opportunity to worship the King of Kings.
No, I post on ARW pretty much every day, and she's been eyeing me from
afar for over a year now.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
You may not live to see
another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you planned.
How insulting! Are you insinuating that I'm like Jason Biggs in
American Pie?
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume to play with
the God of Creation.
Are you talking about Ptah, now? Gosh, is he still around?
Dan Holzman
2003-11-30 04:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Obviously... sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality...
You better smile when you say that, pardner.
w***@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc
2003-11-30 23:40:27 UTC
Permalink
John W <john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:47:56 -0800 In
a continuing ongoing attempt to bullshit the troops, left the following
pile on the carpet, all over the place.

followup sert to jw's unwilling home group
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
Post by Zsarnok
You forgot to wag your finger and climb on a soap-box. Enjoy Christmas,
dear. The bills will wait for a month.
You do not call me "dear", demon. You may be a familiar spirit, but
Actually, that was probably a typo, & the word meant was dreary, as in
dreary of mind, drary in ability, dreary in all things, but you can't get
the hint for you can't afford the clue.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
you are not dealing with someone with whom you can be familiar. My God
is greater than your god, and we both know that.
Which one of the xian pantheon are you trying to threaten everyone with
this time anyway? Or do you even know. Let us all guess, the invisible
lad that history can't find, the one that no one can find unless they are
able to live in a world made of fear?
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
And do not tell me when or how to preach.
Well, zeus really doesn't care what you preach, or when come to that.
After all, he is the head Greek god, not yours. You do know that your
godling is a greek convention don't you. Probably not. Afrter all, you
think CS Lewis is a scholar of your mythology, when all he is is a
mediore apologetic that fails with those that don't buy into the myth to
start with. Ever wonder why that is? Of course you don't, that would
require concious thought about your assumptions, & that would be dangerous
to your claimed xian beleif.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
And I suggest you enjoy Christmas. It may well be your last
Saturnella you mean, after all, that is the celebrration of life that your
cult of death took over & made their very own. Or you might want to
include Mirtha, Khrishna, even Confucious & Lao Tzu. You see, they are
all claimed to be born at the winter solstice. & you know, well not you
but intelligent people do, that according to your mythology it is Jan 6 or
March during lambing time. BTW, those are but a few of your mythologies
predecesors that claim immaculate concept, immaculate birth [one going so
far as to being born from the left armpit], saviors of the world. So your
jesus come lately isn't really that impressiove to anyone but you
jezebeth.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
opportunity to worship the King of Kings. You may not live to see
The king of kings, Elvis??? Well, at least he existed so it would be more
approriate to worship him I guess.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
another Christmas. Or He may come sooner than you planned.
Nope, Elvis is dead according to some doctors at a **christian** hospital
in Memphis, Tn, USA. & yet, there are those that swear & believe he is
still alive, unlike your myth, he might be. Or didn't you know that. After
all, there is so much you patently don't know. Especially about your
myth.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
Do not presume to play with me, demon, and do not presume to play with
Jezebeth, no one wants to [play witbh you, & if you were to quit
pretending you know what you are talking about, t'is likely no one would
point out your abberations. But then, that won't do for you, you need the
attention even or maybe especially if it is negative. Got to get those
martyr points & without earning the displeasure of others, your Job act is
a contemptable failure, just like you apparently.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
the God of Creation.
But the xian myth doesn't have a god of creation, which you would know if
you knew anything beyond a superficiasl exposure to your mytholoigy.
These are god & goddess, maybe a devil or demon or two, of creation. In
the original aspect, none are Hebraic though at least one is Canaanite.


ai' tojon adamas agu'gux akongo
alatangana allah amma amma amun
antu anu aondo
apap aramazd archonssaboth arebati ataa
naa nygongmo aten atl atua fafine atua i
raropuka atum avalokitesvara awonawilona ayi'
uru'n toyo,n baiame brahma bulai bulgang
bumba cacoch cagu
cakra ce acatl cghene
chiconahuiehecatl chnum
chul tatic chites vaneg
cihuacoatl quilaztli
cipacctonal citalatonac citalicue dharma dyaus
pitar e alom e quaholom ehecatl el
elohim elkunirsa ellel
emli hin enki epimetheus e'ros es
fidi mukullu hachacyum hao
Hindu hiranyagarbha hun hunapa hunab ku
hurracan ihoioi iksvaku il imana
imra ipalnemoani isten
isten itzam zacal nok iusaas izanangi no
kami iznami no kami jehova jok julunggul
ka tyelo kaia kalunga kami musubi no
kami kasisia kitanitowit kucumatz kukulkan
kumarbi kumokums kun tu ban pok kun tu bzan po
kyumbe kwoth laima lesa leza
libanza lisa lodur
lowalangi mahatala makemake maheo maito
mal malamanganga'e malamangangaifo manitu
manohel toehel manu marduk mayon mbomba
mbotumbo mehet weret
mkulumncandi moma mula djadi mungo
na'ininwn na' pe nahui ollin nainuema nammu
nanahuatl naeau narayana
nareu ne'nenkicex nediyon nefertuim
neith ngai niamye nu gua nu kua
nudimmud nut nyame
nzapa o kuni nushi no mikoto
ocelotl oduduwa ohoroxtotil olodumare
orisa nla orisania pachacmac panao pemba
pore prajapati promethus
prthu ptah purusa qamai'ts quat
quetzelcatl quetzacoatl quiahuti
raluvimbha re rigenmucha rubanga
ruhganga sa samael seyon shomde
sirao siva somtus
suku taka mi mitsubi no kami
tangara tate tawa te aka la roe
te manva roa te tanga engae teharonhiawagon
telavelik tenanto'mni tenanto'mwan thareon tiamat
tiki tino taata tirawa
tlaltchuti tloque nahauque tomor tomwo'get
tontiuh toro tororut totilma'il
trumual tsunigoab tvastar umanssi ashi
kabi hiko ji no kami
umvelinkwangi ungud unkulunkulu unumbote
unumbotte uru'n ajy toyo'n vahguru vairacocha
venda vile & ve visnu visvakarman
waka wakan tonka wakonda weir kumbamba
ya'qhicin yaldaboth yaro yehl yemekonji
yng yoalechutli yoalli echecatl
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
God bless,
Which one,

Aesculaius Agas Ah Tabai Ah Uincir Dz'acab Alardi Alp
Apollo Apollon Asag Askelpios As'vins
Baal Marqod Baba Basamum Belenus Bhaisajyaguru
Bilwis Borovo Cherion Dala Kadavara Dian Cecht
Dimme El Elel Endouellicus Erra Esmun
gNyan Geb Ghantakarna Grannus Gula Hala Hatdastsisi
Hygieia Imhotep Ix Chel Jinn Jizo Juras Mate
Kamrusepa Kantatman Kututh Lamastu Lature Dano
Lenus Lubanga Marduk Mari Meditrina Mikal
Nergal Ninazu Nin'isina Nuada Ocelus Okininusi
Osanobua Patecatl Pazuzu Podaleiros
Resef Rudra Sadrapa Salus Sataran Sauska Sirona
Sitala Sukuna Hikona Tatevali Teteoinnan Thatmanitu
Thursir Tozi Xil Sga'nagwai Yao shi fo Yen Kuang Niang Niang
Zapotalantenan

or are you pretending to mean one from the xian
pantheon. In which case, which one.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
John W
Post by Zsarnok
Zsarnok
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:38:55 -1000, "Disbelief is the Ultimate Value"
x-no-archive:yes
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person. Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Your blasphemy notwithstanding, you are twisting the truth into a
pretzel with your numerous straw men. Who were you planning to fool
but yourself, demon?
His Birthday is approaching. Leave we who love Him to worship Him in
peace, demon. You'd be wise to do that yourself. While you can. If
you are the demon I believe you are, you know the time is VERY short.
Shame on you.
John W
snip, john w can't answer anything posted prevously, as usual.
d w a c o n
2003-12-01 00:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Christianity is love.
--
The Power House
http://www.cafeshops.com/powerpress
Zsarnok
2003-12-01 01:53:13 UTC
Permalink
Of what?

Zsarnok
Post by d w a c o n
Christianity is love.
Nevermore
2003-12-01 05:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zsarnok
Of what?
Zsarnok
Threatening heretics!
Post by Zsarnok
Post by d w a c o n
Christianity is love.
Zsarnok
2003-12-06 18:34:28 UTC
Permalink
I could get a T-shirt ...

Zsarnok
Post by Nevermore
Post by Zsarnok
Of what?
Zsarnok
Threatening heretics!
Post by Zsarnok
Post by d w a c o n
Christianity is love.
Stupendous Man
2003-12-02 04:00:36 UTC
Permalink
You know what the Catholics would say...
Post by Zsarnok
Of what?
Zsarnok
Post by d w a c o n
Christianity is love.
Zsarnok
2003-12-06 18:34:50 UTC
Permalink
Naughty boy. ;)

Zsarnok
Post by Stupendous Man
You know what the Catholics would say...
Post by Zsarnok
Of what?
Zsarnok
Post by d w a c o n
Christianity is love.
Brenda G. Kent
2003-12-01 04:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by d w a c o n
Christianity is love.
**Amen to that!

Blessings,
Bren.
eighth octave
2003-12-01 06:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
The Morality of the Christ?
by Daniel G. Jennings
The basic idea behind Christianity is that "God" somehow turned
himself into an ordinary man named Jesus Christ and lived and worked
here on Earth as an average person.
It's actually a pagan idea that Christians stole.
Post by Disbelief is the Ultimate Value
Christians and their apologists
present this belief as profoundly moral and proof of "God's" superior
morality. The question we should ask ourselves: is the basic Christian
belief, that of the "God-man," really a moral belief or not?
My answer is that this belief is not a moral one because Jesus Christ,
the God-Man described in the Bible (if he really existed), would be a
liar, a fraud and a sadomasochist. Obviously a liar, a fraud and a
sadomasochist couldn't be an example of superior morality or
"Christian" values. So there is no real morality in the story of
Christ as presented in the Gospels.
Jesus would be a liar and a fraud because if he were God, he could
never be an ordinary person. No matter how hard Jesus worked at being
an ordinary person, he would still be God because he could in the
blink of an eye change everything. Jesus wouldn't be a man, he'd be a
God playing man. If Jesus went around telling ordinary people that he
was a man he would be a liar and on some level a fraud. Jesus Christ
wouldn't be a man, then, he'd be a fraud, a hollow mockery of
humanity.
Worse, Jesus would be a sadomasochist, that is a person who enjoys
inflicting pain and suffering upon himself. By experiencing life in
First Century Palestine in all its glory, Jesus would be inflicting
pain, torture and violence upon himself. He even allowed himself to be
whipped and tortured to death by the Romans. Such behavior isn't an
example of morality, it is an example of psychotic behavior.
If experiencing such suffering himself wasn't bad enough, Jesus chose
to let others suffer along with him. Jesus not only enjoyed pain and
suffering but he made sure everybody else suffered as well.
Would anybody consider a doctor who had the drugs needed to cure a
painful disease but refused to use those drugs on his patients, then
injected himself with the bacteria which caused that disease so he
could feel his patients' pain, a moral or a great person? Of course
not. Such a doctor would be arrested, stripped of his license and
quite probably committed to a mental hospital.
Yet that's exactly what the Jesus Christ described in the Bible was;
he had the power to end all human suffering, but he didn't use it.
Instead he experienced that suffering himself and then arrogantly
claimed moral superiority because he was sharing people's suffering.
The God who walked on the Earth as a man would not be an example of
higher morality. He'd be an example of lunacy and mental illness. And
since God is supposed to be perfect, God couldn't be mentally ill. So
whoever or whatever Jesus was, he couldn't have been an omnipotent
God. Since Jesus wasn't God then what was he? Most likely Jesus was
just a man who suffered from some sort of mental illness.
Since the basic belief behind Christianity is not a moral one,
Christianity cannot and should not be seen as a faith that encourages
real morality. Instead it should be seen as a faith that discourages
morality by promoting a set of beliefs that encourages its adherents
to teach falsehoods as the truth.
Copyright 2003, Internet Infidels, Inc. Copyright info here.
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=323
w***@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc
2003-12-04 02:27:18 UTC
Permalink
jezebeth aka <john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:15:08
-0800 in a futile attempt to [play the injured innocent proceeded to leave
the following mess on the carpet like any other easily excited small
animal.

Oh, BTW, followups set to the trolls home [poor sods] newsgroup, the
Baptist one.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
x-no-archive:yes
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:14:25 GMT,
x-no-archive:yes
Post by w***@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc
consequence & wanted the world to know that.
Ever SHRIEKING for attention, eh, Satan?
Why no, unlike you. Who is it that pats itself on the back ceaselesly, you
jezebeth. Who is it that posts to the Baptist, & crossposts daily, you
jezebetrh. Who is it that posts one liners to 500 line articles, you
jezebeth. Who is it that hides its trash in the depths o posts it can't
answer, you jezebeth.

If you think anyone but you can match in the attempts to gain the
attention of others, you are mistaken jezebeth.

IOW, you are the most self satisfdyting poltroon seen in arcb in quite
some time, if not the chump of the self aggrandising bvrigade, at least eh
most self serving.

So, now that you've pointed out that you can't answer anything with
thoghtfull response, or priovide evidence for your asinine claims, who is
the attention seeker.
It is you jezebeth.

& the beauty of that is thatthe information is archived on google &
elsewhere for anyone that wants to look up your foul & odious habitss.
Wrote any good porn lately? Seen any good incestial videos lately?
Advertised for any lately? I haven't, & that is just for starters.
Post by John W <***@yahoo.com>
John W
Snip, jezzie obviously had no response to the proiopr & just wanted to
play the injured innocent to the audience, forgretting thwat the audience
knows him for the shallow self gratifying individual it is.

walksalone who wonders, is john w happy with the results of attention it
demanded? Who can tell & does anyone of merit care, probably not.
Li Mu Bai
2003-12-11 08:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
Now look very carefully at the chart in Figure 2 on page 3 and
notice the dates and longevity rates.
http://tinyurl.com/yq57
Post by Tiger
Post by Li Mu Bai
The rise of science and the weakening of religion is directly
responsible for a higher quality of life in the world today.
You clearly misspelled "a longer life."
Nope.

You clearly did not look at the chart.

Here it is again:

http://tinyurl.com/yq57

My statement regards a higher quality of life thanks to science:
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean drinking
water".

While it is true that this improved quality of life has led to longer
human life, religious institutions fought against the benefits of
science for centuries, resulting in an average life expectancy between
35-40 years, if one was lucky enough not to die in childbirth or
before puberty. The history of the Christian Church is a painful,
primitive, superstitious commentary on pure evil masquerading as
"truth". Medical doctors were forbidden to cure patients because
everyone knew that disease was a "sin", and God's will could not be
countered:

"...sickness was "regarded as the finger of Providence. God used
illness for a multitude of higher purposes...as a punishment..." [9].
Disease "was routinely interpreted as the consequence of sin, crime,
or moral fault, as precipitated by evil spirits, or as the work of
black magic. Disease was thus personalized and given a moral or
religious meaning." [10]. Doctors would also have declared the healing
power of Christ in the world, and that Antimony, prayer and fasting
were the sole cures."
http://www.homeoint.org/morrell/otherarticles/antibiotic.htm

Under the guidance of the Church, doctors neither cured patients nor
provided relief from pain and suffering. There can be no greater
example of evil in the world than the Christian Church prior to the
reclaiming of classical knowledge destroyed by those who pretended to
be represenatives of "God" and "Truth". And once the knowledge of the
pre-Christian scientists like Hippocrates was reclaimed and put back
into practice, a higher quality of life was the result. The victory
of knowledge over dogma, was the victory of science over religion.
Science improved the quality of life for everyone and longevity was
one of the benefits that the public reaped from unfettered, free
inquiry. Show me the benefits civilization has realized from the
tired tenets and dog-eared dogmas of the Mother Church and I'll show
you a pile of rotting corpses, condemned to an early death.
Baruch
2003-12-12 02:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Li Mu Bai
Post by Li Mu Bai
Now look very carefully at the chart in Figure 2 on page 3 and
notice the dates and longevity rates.
http://tinyurl.com/yq57
This chart is flawed. The y axis (the age side of the chart) doesn't go
down to zero; it begins at 30. So basically you're getting an exaggerated
view of the effect of hygeine, etc. The way the chart is set up, it appears
to show a five- to tenfold improvement in longevity, which is inaccurate.
It's double, which is clearly significant, but not quite as dramatic.
Post by Li Mu Bai
You clearly did not look at the chart.
http://tinyurl.com/yq57
"improved public health, including sanitary sewers and clean drinking
water".
Although much of this longevity *is* certainly due to improved sanitation,
if you read the Bible you'll find that the basic rules of sanitation were
laid out several thousand years ago. The bulk of the increase in longevity
doesn't come from scientific discoveries made since 1800, but from actually
*doing* many of the things advocated in the Bible.

I hasten to add that none of these comments applies to the discovery and use
of vaccination and antibiotics, which has yielded even better results.
Those were purely scientific discoveries that have prevented or reduced an
enormous amount of suffering and death.
Post by Li Mu Bai
While it is true that this improved quality of life has led to longer
human life, religious institutions fought against the benefits of
science for centuries, resulting in an average life expectancy between
35-40 years, if one was lucky enough not to die in childbirth or
That is a simplistic and highly inaccurate statement. *Some* religions, at
some times in their spans, did viciously and violently interfere with
science and rational thought. At other times religions have fostered
science. Much of what was known to the ancients is preserved because of the
Roman Catholic church's monks, copying the ancient documents into
illuminated manuscripts. Islam and Judaism have both contributed greatly to
preserving scientific knowledge, and also furthering it. The early Muslims
were fine astronomers. and mathematicians. Our words "algebra" and
"algorithm" come from the Arabic of these scientists.
Post by Li Mu Bai
before puberty. The history of the Christian Church is a painful,
primitive, superstitious commentary on pure evil masquerading as
"truth". Medical doctors were forbidden to cure patients because
everyone knew that disease was a "sin", and God's will could not be
"...sickness was "regarded as the finger of Providence. God used
illness for a multitude of higher purposes...as a punishment..." [9].
Disease "was routinely interpreted as the consequence of sin, crime,
or moral fault, as precipitated by evil spirits, or as the work of
black magic. Disease was thus personalized and given a moral or
religious meaning." [10]. Doctors would also have declared the healing
power of Christ in the world, and that Antimony, prayer and fasting
were the sole cures."
http://www.homeoint.org/morrell/otherarticles/antibiotic.htm
This, again, was not always the case, nor was it *usually* the case. For
one thing, there *was* no medical science for most of the period you're
discussing. The best treatment known to doctors was "leeching" or
bloodletting. Surgery, mostly amputations, was done without anesthesia or
antibiotics. In general, medical science did *nothing* to enhance longevity
or the quality of life. It ranged from ineffective to absolutely lethal.
Little harm was done by preventing people from getting "medical" treatment.

You know, antimony means, "against (the) monk". It was used to poison
inconvenient monks... I am not aware of it being used as a treatment for
anything, though I suppose it's possible. We still use radium, after all,
radiation, and highly toxic chemicals to try to heal things we don't have a
clue how to fix. Arsenic compounds were used to treat syphillis.
Post by Li Mu Bai
Under the guidance of the Church, doctors neither cured patients nor
provided relief from pain and suffering. There can be no greater
example of evil in the world than the Christian Church prior to the
reclaiming of classical knowledge destroyed by those who pretended to
be represenatives of "God" and "Truth". And once the knowledge of the
As I said, the Church *preserved* this knowledge. That's what whole armies
of monks did for a living - copying ancient manuscripts so that their
content wouldn't be lost. Even pagan knowledge, such as Aristoteles.
Post by Li Mu Bai
pre-Christian scientists like Hippocrates was reclaimed and put back
into practice, a higher quality of life was the result. The victory
of knowledge over dogma, was the victory of science over religion.
Science improved the quality of life for everyone and longevity was
one of the benefits that the public reaped from unfettered, free
inquiry. Show me the benefits civilization has realized from the
tired tenets and dog-eared dogmas of the Mother Church and I'll show
you a pile of rotting corpses, condemned to an early death.
I dunno... most of the art in Europe... J.S. Bach. Michelangelo, DaVinci,
Mother Teresa, gee, I'll bet you could add lots of people to this list.

Yes, religions all did terrible things - Crusades, Jihads, Inquisitions,
human rights violations, you name it. And they also did and are doing
humanitarian things, teaching, bringing medicine to those who cannot afford
it, working to install sewers and sources of clean drinking water, seeking
to help victims of famines and other disasters. You're presenting only one
side of the matter.
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...