Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthOn Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:39:05 +0200, Steve Hayes
Post by Steve HayesChristian peace activists have entered a former RAF base in Snowdonia painted
'no death drones' on the runway.
Members of Cymdeithas y Cymod made the protest at Llanbedr Airfield, near
Harlech, Gwynedd, on Friday at 06:00 BST.
The group is campaigning against the airfield's deal with QinetiQ to develop
further unmanned aerial vehicles - known as drones.
Protesters say it is part of an ongoing campaign against developing warfare.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-27829267
These people give Christians a bad name.
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks
into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Why not spread the Gospel?
Yes that is being done as we speak. They are fulfilling Mt 24:14,
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as
a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (NIV)
This is one of the 'last days' prophecies. If you believe we are in
the last days, then some religious group somewhere must be preaching
the KINGDOM message. That is the theme of their preaching. The good
news that God's kingdom is coming. (see the "Lord's Prayer" along with
Mt 6:10) Yes to 'preach in the whole world' that theme of God's
kingdom, is going to require being highly organized, as well as having
high resources spent, since no one gets paid for doing this. Why not
check it out?
James
I know it ro be a cult. A false religion. Jesus Christ is same
today and forever, since he is
How is it a cult? Do you even know the definition of a cult? If JW's
are a false religion, then who is fulfilling Mt 24:14? Please tell me.
We are in the last days, so that must be going on. If not JW's, then
who in the world is doing it
You know why it is a cult. You have been shown.
As to the Gospel message, the JW's do not even know what it is.
Yes, it is the last days of the Gentiles, then mass destruction.
Many believers are spreading the Gospel all around the world.
Bleep! Wrong answer:) The Bible says there is only "one faith", one
genuine religion. (Eph 4:5) The "believers" as you say, comprise many
religions professing to be Christian. But the Bible says there is only
"one".
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
No religion mentioned.
"One faith" means one true RELIGION. It doesn't have to say the
"religion" to be discussing religion. There are many references in the
Bible to identify the true religion.
There was only one religion sanctified by God and that was
Judaism. Even there is was taught one must be perfect as God is
perfect as well as faith, although many did not use it.
God foretold the coming of the Christian religion at Jer 31:31-33. And
God showed his backing of it by giving first century Christians
certain miraculous powers. Once Christianity gained a foothold, and
the apostles all died off, those miraculous powers were done away
with. (1 Cor 13:8)
In a religion on does things for attaining. In True Christianity
the believer lives by faith and has righteousness by the faith OF
Jesus. If you read Jeremiah like you will find things a bit
different. There God speaks of a New Covenant with the Jews.
Paul talks about spiritual Jews, and that is what that prophecy in
Jeremiah is talking about. Thus anyone from any country can be a
spiritual Jew. Ro 2:28,29,
"28. A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is
circumcision merely outward and physical.
29. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is
circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God." (NIV)
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies,
they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
So you say you listen to the word of God, and your org uses this
verse as a basic doctrine. Look at it, take a long hard look at
it.
You can be loving. However, all your "prophets" failed.
JW's don't have any prophets. They may do things LIKE a prophet, but
they don't have any prophets such as Ezekiel was, etc. Perhaps you are
thinking of the Mormons, or some cults.
Post by TruthAll your
prophecies failures.
Not all. They predicted great changes to come in 1914. It just didn't
happen exactly as they thought it would. (I think some erroneously
thought they were going to Heaven then) They had too much enthusiasm.
At any rate, the true religion gradually gains more truths as time
goes on, until they have all the truths and they are all correct. This
was predicted at Pr 4:18,
"The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)
Post by TruthThe knowledge of you church? Isn't for all
knowledge has passed away. The reconstruction they are attempting
is nonsense, they cannot come up with anything new nor different
based on that verse and the failures of your leaders. All, POOF!
Up in smoke.
See Proverbs 4:18 above. It has to happen that way if you are the true
religion.
Post by TruthIn Romans the description Paul uses is only applicable to the
Born Again Believer in Jesus Christ. Who IS God.
Jesus is no more God than I am. Jesus himself described who he was at
Joh 10:36,
"what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent
into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said,
`I am God's Son'?" (NIV)
And when you worship someone, that person is greater than the
worshipper. Notice here that Jesus' God, was "God", not himself. Joh
20:17,
"Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the
Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, `I am returning to my
Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"" (NIV)
And now that Jesus is in Heaven, guess what. He is still inferior to
God. 1 Co 11:3,
"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)
If Jesus is God, how can you explain those 3 verses: Joh 10:36; Joh
20:17; and 1 Co 11:3?
Post by TruthYou have no rights not capabilities to spiritualize, your
knowledge has vanished away.
Nonsense. Our knowledge today is stronger than ever.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthAs to your false teachings regarding the power of God, Apostles
and such you have two distinct problems there related to your
cult.
How do you define a cult?
You know, it has been described to you numerous times. You are
being deceitful asking that question over and over again.
All I asked for was your definition of a cult. I am sure you can
easily look it up on line somewhere.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthOne is those first believers could well have eaten up your
space for the 144K as you falsely believe them to be,
Actually not. See Rev 14:1 and 7:4.
There, you see? Rev 14:1 those are resurrected, the 144K. You
don't know from the early church or not. Your knowledge has
vanished away.
Like I said above, it is as strong as ever. You are being mislead by
visiting various JW hate sites. I suggest you go to the JW web page to
get the REAL truth about our beliefs.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by Truthand the
balance have a head start over any of you. Knowing Christ my
living with him would mean their understanding of scripture would
logically be highly correct and your new found "truths" nothing
but heresy.
Not at all.
Of course they do, #1 you have no reason to think differently. #2
You called them the early church and exhonerated all those less
than 200 years AD. Those were the righteous ones. JW's are not
righteous. The are powerless, and have no knowledge per your
scripture.
How can you be so wrong, and still function? You know practically
nothing about MODERN JW's who are approaching the 'full day'. Again
notice Pr 4:18,
"The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthIf all the signs were fini, then no matter what you
say you and especially your lying leaders are all dumber than a
rock, per your beliefs. 13:8 "whether there be knowledge, it
shall vanish away." It also means that anyone in your group that
prays for healing is exercising their lack of knowledge.
I stand by the Bible and thus 1 Cor 13:8. What do you stand by? Your
personal traditions?
I stand with Jesus, and His Word. I have no personal traditions
other than celebrating birthdays, earth wise. 13:8 says your
knowledge has vanish away, POOF!
Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Several things were
to be done away with. 1 Co 13:8,
"Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be
done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is
knowledge, it will be done away." (NASB)
That "knowledge" was a special kind of knowledge that 1st century
Christians were able to tap into. It was NOT just general knowledge.
Take as examples Jesus traveling to see his sick friend Lazarus. On
the road, Jesus told them that Lazarus had died. That was a special
knowledge given to Christ back then. (see John 11:5-14)
Another example was the Samaritan woman that went to a well to get
water. Jesus told supernatural knowledge concerning her past and
present marital status. (see John 4:16-19)
Another example was when Ananias secretly played “false to the holy
spirit,” and the apostle Peter miraculously knew about it. (see Acts
5:2-4)
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthOn top of that Apostles are still at the top of the list as
ministers to mankind.
Are you saying that some apostles from the first century are still
alive? That is news to me.
There is your proof that you knowledge vanished away, that is an
irrational statement.
Let's see if that was an irrational statement. You said, "On top of
that Apostles are still at the top of the list as ministers to
mankind."
I can only deduce from your statement, that you believe some apostles
are still alive on this earth today. Now if you said they were in
Heaven ministering to mankind, that would make more sense, since that
is where they are.
Post by TruthKnowledge says,
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting
of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of
the body of Christ: (Eph 4:11-12 KJV)
I fully agree with the Scripture.
Post by TruthOf course that excludes the JW's as this is for the body of
Christ.
Not at all. JW's have to be Christ's only servants in this day of the
end. For one reason because they are the only ones fulfilling Mt
24:14,
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as
a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (NIV)
Just look at the cover of any Bible-aid magazine, the Watchtower, for
proof. There is around 8,000,000 JW's preaching in 239 lands, from
about 114,000 congregations. If they are not fulfilling Mt 24:14, then
who is? I know of no other religions doing that on a world-wide scale.
You just have no idea of how much the preaching work fulfilling Mt
24:14 is going on.
They also have specially trained missionaries, who many times learn a
new language and travel to foreign countries and preach the kingdom
message as well as knowledge about Jesus and God there. You just have
no idea.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthIt also mentions "but whether there be
prophecies, they shall fail; " which should tell you that you are
listening to the wrong people. Those false prophets in your cult
should never even have attempted something that was so wrong, per
your teachings.
They may have had a FEW things wrong back then, but they had more
things right than wrong. And JW's admit their mistakes and move on, as
per Pr 4:18,
"The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)
God makes no mistakes, people do. Religions do. Gods teachings
through Jesus was and is consitent, His word fails not. According
to 1 Cor 13:8 your org was doomed before it began, just witness
all the false prophecies. And there never ending changes since
their knowledge has failed them and vanishes away.
You mean the handful of errors? You are not perfect either. If you
believe in 'hellfire' and the Trinity and an immortal soul, then you
already have three false doctrines.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthSo tell me, just how do you justify listening to a cult that
tells you one thing and does another?
How can you believe in doctrines that are stagnated in false doctrines
such as the Trinity and hellfire, etc?
Trinity is not listed in the Bible and is no doctrine of mine
either.
Now you are confusing me. Down below you say to believe in the 3
persons in one, which is the Trinity.
Post by TruthHell fire for the short term and the Lake of Fire and
brimstone with the purpose of torturing those that are there. I
have you a list of all that. Scriptural, plain as the nose on
your face. Your knowledge failed you there as well.
Not at all. So you believe the Lake of fire in Revelation is literal
and God tortures wicked humans forever in a literal fire? That is
called sadism. And the God of the Bible never even conceived of such a
thing sadistic thing. Jer 7:31,
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben
Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did
not command, nor did it enter my mind." (NIV)
Did you know that Job wanted to go to "hell" to get RELIEF from his
sufferings not add to it. Here is the proof. Job 14:13,
"Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt
remember me?" (Douay) (brackets mine)
The word "hell" (Hebrew- sheol, Greek- hades) actually means the
common grave of DEAD mankind. There is no consciousness there.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthAre your leaders just
conning you for the big bucks they live on?
Now I know that you don't know JW's. Our leaders use their
contributions to further the kingdom message. (Mt 24:14) Unlike
Christendom's clergy who get a salary for preaching to their
congregations, JW's in the congregations get no salary. They do most
all things at their own expense, such as the gas it takes to go out
house to house, and the food they eat while out. They go by Jesus'
words in the Bible at Mt 10:8,
You give your bucks, the people at the head get paid, they also
are selling off their NY properties for millions. Rutherford
lived in the multimillion dollar home at your expense.
Quote
Certain workers are very short of money since they are paid only
a pittance by the society.46 However, some of their fellows state
openly that they regularly receive a good deal of support from
their families. As is well known, members of the governing body
and other high officials are so often given sizeable gifts when
they travel and speak to the larger Witness community. Thus,
there are significant income differences at Bethel. The rooms of
poorer workers are often spartan in their furnishings with no
air-conditioning units. Their more affluent brethren live in
greater luxury and almost always have the air-conditioning, so
important in hot New York summers. End Quote.
Artilcle on the watchtower
Where did you specifically get that quotation from? And why do you
keep bringing up things that happened in the 1800's and early 1900's?
I told you the true religion will follow the course of Pr 4:18,
"But the path of the righteous is as the shining light, going on and
brightening until the day be fully come." (DARBY)
Post by TruthPost by James"...You received without paying, give without pay." (RSV)
Does your church do the same? And what church is that?
As did the Apostles and others receive of the local community
that is the same way where I go to church.
You too have a change box at your "temples".
Where is the world are you getting "temples"? I believe you have us
mixed up with the Mormons. We go to Kingdom Halls, not temples.
You need to stay away from those JW hate sites. They are doing nothing
but confusing you.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthLike the big house in
SD? BTW They actually had seven homes down there, and none were
like what you live in.
How do you know what kind of mansion or house I live in?
I doubt you live in a mansion, and the home purchased were well
above what you can afford.
You have it wrong again. Predicting doesn't see to be your cup of tea.
Post by TruthPost by JamesYes, they had the wrong idea about the Princes in the earth, and they
CORRECTED IT. Has your religion corrected all its errors since its
beginning? (which I guess consists of just you)
Which shows the blatant failure of the leaders of you cult thus
your religions failures.
Ah, but it had to be in a similar way in order to fulfil Pr 4:18. If
we practiced the exact same doctrines as in the beginning, as we
practice today, we would not be fulfilling Pr 4:18.
What is the name of your church?
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthThere is only one religion and that is
found in James
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father
is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,
and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Notice this mark of the true religion. Joh 13:35,
"This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love
for one another." (NAB)
Nope, since there is only one body of Christ, one congregation.
Yes, and they are to show love to one another in the congregation.
(Joh 13:35)
They are not allowed to openly disagree for fear they will be
disfellowshipped, they are to be slaves and robots to the
Watchtower.
Do you have a job? Are you a slave to that job? No? Why not? Because
you can quit anytime you want. The same is true at the JW
headquarters. They are volunteers that can quit at any time. You
certainly need to read up on the JW organization, and pay less
attention to hate web sites,
Do you have access to the Book for Elders? Or the book for the
common folk?
What book for Elders, or what book for common folk? JW's have a ton of
literature out there. You have to be more specific. For example, we
have a book for the 'common folk' called: "Organized to Accomplish Our
Ministry". Is that what you are talking about?
I am sure they have special publications for the various aspects of
the Kingdom preaching work. Probably for missionaries, and circuit
overseers, and the governing body, etc. Try to find the name of them,
and I will try to look them up for you.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthYou now have two groups, the 144K and the dogs who
eat the crumbs. And only then if they are selected.
The BIBLE tells us two destinations for saved mankind. One group will
go to Heaven. That is the 144,000 you are referring to. The other will
live forever on this earth.
The heavenly group is also shown at Da 7:18,
"But the holy ones of the Most High shall receive the kingship, to
possess it forever and ever." (NAB)
This earth is destroyed. Bye bye for JW's. Another place that
knowledge has faied you.
Actually, your hate sites have failed you. The earth will NEVER be
destroyed. The Bible says that at Ps 104:5,
"Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed
for ever." (KJV)
and also Ec 1:4,
"Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever."
(NIV)
Not only will the earth remain forever, but it will have righteous
people living on it. Mt 5:5,
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth." (NIV)
Ps 37:29,
"For the good will inherit the earth, and upon it for ever will
dwell." (The Holy Bible in Modern English)
Post by TruthPost by Jamesat Da 7:21,22,
"21. For, as I watched, that horn made war against the holy ones and
was victorious
22. until the Ancient One arrived; judgment was pronounced in favor
of the holy ones of the Most High, and the time came when the holy
ones possessed the kingdom." (NAB)
and Da 7:27,
"Then the kingship and dominion and majesty of all the kingdoms under
the heavens shall be given to the holy people of the Most High, Whose
kingdom shall be everlasting: all dominions shall serve and obey him."
(NAB)
They are also referred to as "firstfruits". Re 14:4,
"These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they
have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb
wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first
fruits to God and to the Lamb." (NASB)
The firstfruits of any crop are only a small amount of that crop. Thus
the associate rulers of Jesus would be a smaller amount than the
general population.
Concerning the 144,00. Do just that number get to go to heaven to be
priests and kings with Jesus?
(Rev 20:6) Or do all good people get to heaven?
This latter view is commonly being taught today.
King David (who was righteous) did not make it to heaven. Acts 2:34,
"For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, "The Lord said
to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand"" (NIV)
John the Baptist did not make it to heaven either. Mt 11:11,
LOL, more evidence that you have incomplete knowledge,
When are you going to wake up?
I noticed you didn't give any details in your opposition to those
Scriptures. Thus I have to assume you have none.
Post by TruthPost by James"I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen
anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the
kingdom of heaven is greater than he." (NIV)
Some righteous people will be on the earth forever. Ps 37:9,11,29,
"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD,
they shall inherit the earth...11 But the meek shall inherit the
earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace...29 The
righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever." (KJV)
Just why the KJV translators put "earth" in the first two instances,
and put "land" in the last one, even though it comes from the same
Hebrew word 'erets' only they knew. Nevertheless, Jesus used the word
"earth" when he quoted from Ps 37:29 at Mt 5:5,
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth." (NIV)
He was preaching to Jews. Teaching them about perfection. and the
law.
Jesus taught them lots of things, even many more things that are not
written down in the Bible. And he later included gentiles.
Post by TruthPost by JamesCan humans be happy only living on earth? Notice verse 11 of the
Psalms; they will find "delight".
Jesus referred to these two groups of people (those going to Heaven
forever and those living on earth forever) at John 10:11-16. Notice
verses 11-15 are talking about Jesus' sheep. (He refers to this same
group of sheep again at Luke 12:32 as a "little flock" who gets the
"kingdom") Then in verse 16 he talks about another group of sheep
which are NOT of the "fold" of 11-15. But these also are accepted by
Jesus so that he will be the "one shepherd" over both of them. (verse
16) Who compose this 2nd group of sheep?
Also notice in Re 14:1-3 that these 144,000 who came "from the earth"
are with Jesus on the heavenly Mount Zion. This same 144,000 is
mentioned in Re 7:4. But in verse 9 it talks about "a great multitude
that no one could count" who are "from every nation" and who get
salvation because of God and "the lamb". That great crowd is different
from the one mentioned at Re 19:1,6. This other great crowd are
angels. They did not come from the earth, nor does it mention that
they owe their salvation to the lamb.
This "great multitude" of Re 7:9 could not be referring to the "little
flock" because the "great multitude" are described as a very large
group. ("no one could count") So these must be the "other sheep" of
John 10:16. They will be the ones who "inherit the earth".
But doesn't it say in Re 7:9 that this great multitude are "standing
before the throne and in front of the Lamb."? Doesn't this mean they
are in Heaven? The word "stand" can mean an approved condition and not
just location. (see Re 6:17; Lu 21:36) The words "before the throne"
are translated from the Greek "enopion tou thronou" which literally
means "in sight of the throne". Thus the Greek vocabulary from which
these words are translated from do not require this "great crowd" to
be up in heaven, but only "in sight" of it. We are "in sight" of God
even while here on earth. (see Acts 10:33)
These 144,000 that are "kings" in Heaven also have a job to do. As
kings, they need subjects to rule
over. Who are these? As 1 Co 6:2 says "the saints will judge the
world?" But how could they judge anyone on earth if everyone has gone
to Heaven, Hell or Purgatory?
In summery, the Bible shows that God will have 144,000 chosen from the
earth, to be in Heaven with Jesus and God, and to rule over mankind.
God also will have perfect righteous people living on a paradise earth
just as He originally intended. As the prophet Isaiah says at Isa
55:11,
"so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me
empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for
which I sent it." (NIV)
None of your understanding is valid, you have no basis for your
beliefs as you have no knowledge. Zeal? Yes, knowledge No.
Nothing you said here, by your own verse choice is to be taken as
knowledge or proper understaning. 1 Cor 13:8 is in your path.
You can be tossed out on a whim, many have.
Again, you do not show where you perceive me to be wrong. You need to
use the Scriptures to refute what you consider false doctrines. As the
Bereans brought out at Ac 17:11,
"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,
for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the
Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (NIV)
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesThus the true religion is to have love for each other. That means not
killing an 'enemy' of your same religion, in some politicians war,
such as American Catholics killing German Catholics in WWII, and
reverse.
You have no scripture for that.
The Bible says we are to "reason" on the Scriptures. (Acts 17:2,3)
No, it doesn't say that, is simply that Paul reasoned with the
heathen out of the scriptures.
Why do you think that was recorded in the Bible? Paul set an example
for us to follow, since ALL Scripture is "useful for teaching, for
refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness." (2 Tim
3:16)
Post by TruthPost by JamesSo if the true religion has Jesus' disciples loving each other,
blowing the guts out of your enemy, which may be the same religion as
you, goes against Scripture. As Jesus put it at Mt 26:52,
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
You were give the NT truth about true religion in James and it
has not changed.
Yes, James names a couple of characterists of the true religion. And
JW's follow it to the letter. But there are many more properties of a
true religion, such as following ALL of Jesus' commands. Lu 6:46,
No they don't, they refer older people and others with medical
needs to the government to take care of so that those people.
Who doesn't? Sometimes they have to take care of widows and widowers
themselves. It all depends on the circumstances.
I get help from the VA for my problems. I don't have to go to them,
but if I qualify, I go. If I don't, I will make the best of it.
The VA actually wants more Vets to seek out other Vets and get them to
the VA also. That is what they told me. They like to be the sole
provider of medical help to Vets, and not have to compete with the
local doctors.
Post by TruthCheck your secret book for the Elders.
You make it sound like a suspenseful spy movie or something. Where is
your source information for your 'secret book', and what is the name
of it they gave you.
Post by TruthPost by James"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV)
You didn't answer your own question
On the contrary, JW's are one of the few religions which abides by
ALL of Jesus' commands. For example take Christendom. They have fought
in many wars, if direct defiance of Jesus' words at Mt 5:44,
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)
And Mt 19:19b,
"...Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (KJV)
And Mt 26:52,
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
Yes, JW's remain neutral concerning wars, not only because they follow
all of Jesus' commands, but also because Joh 15:19,
"If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is,
you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the
world. That is why the world hates you." (NIV)
Your dislike or hatred for JW's is actually helping to fulfill John
15:19.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthJesus told the disciples to arm themselves just before he was to
be kissed by Judas. Jesus also said for men to arm themselves in
a big way for the last days.
Nonsense. Jesus told them to arm themselves with TWO swords. (Lu
22:35-38) That in no way can fight the mob coming for Jesus who not
only had swords, but clubs. But that's not all. What did Jesus finally
tell them to do with those two swords? Mt 26:52,
I said for the last days, pay attention! To beat their plowshares
into swords. Again you show disdain for the word, as I mentioned
this before and gave you a verse, and proof that 13:8 is true
about you.
JW's have beat their plowshares into swords, unlike most of the
Churches who have beat their plowshares into swords. It should be
plain to see who is the true religion here, unless Satan blocks the
light of Christ to get through to them.
You didn't quote the whole Scripture at Isa 2:2-4. Isa 2:2-4,
"2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of
Jehovah's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and
shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the
mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will
teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion
shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. 4 And
he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and
they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into
pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither
shall they learn war any more. (Divine Name King James Bible)- See
more at:
http://www.dnkjb.net/1189chapters/OT23ISA02.htm#sthash.mwa7tA89.dpuf
Notice in these last days where people are going:
"Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of
the God of Jacob;"
Mountain of who? Of JEHOVAH. There is only one mountain today where
they use the name "Jehovah" where "all nations shall flow unto it".
JW's are in all the nations, thus they all stream to Jehovah's house.
Post by TruthPost by James""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthAs to the proper faith, it is found in Acts
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine
and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and
signs were done by the apostles.
Yes, the APOSTLES of the first century had special powers and
privileges. But when they died, much of their special powers were done
away with. 1 Co 13:8,
"Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be
done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is
knowledge, it will be done away." (NASB)
This will happen when the Lord returns, not before. During the
millennium.
The Scripture doesn't say WHEN that would happen. It just says it will
happen. And historical writings say that by the second century, those
special gifts were MISSING. Thus we read that these powers were,
It does say when and that If he hadn't of returned there would be
no man left standing, everyone would be killed. You can count the
days that he will till he returns.
What if Jesus has already returned, but invisibly? Yes, there is
evidence for that. Joh 14:19,
Nothing in that verse to support your inference. More Knowledge
POOF!
See right below.
Post by TruthPost by James"Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.
Because I live, you also will live." (NIV)
What part of "Before long, the world will not see me anymore," don't
you understand?
It means, Jesus' return would be INVISIBLE to literal human eyes. That
is why it says Jesus is coming with the "clouds". He disappeared
behind a cloud when he left the earth, and thus will be behind the
cloud so to speak, when he returns. (which he has in 1914) He is now
invisibly functioning in the midst of his enemies. But that will soon
end. (the enemies will be forcibly removed) (Ps 110:1,2)
Post by TruthPost by JamesAlso when Jesus returns his enemies will not immediately be destroyed.
Ps 110:1,2,
"1 Psalm 110 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my
right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 2 The
LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the
midst of your enemies." (NIV)
Notice, Jesus will RULE while his enemies are still around.
More knowledge up in smoke. What you said doesn't fit. You might
think so, but you have been deceived. POOF!
Your denying it with no proof, does not make it a false statement. How
can you justify that it is wrong?
Post by TruthPost by JamesBut doesn't Revelation say that every eye will see him? Yes at Rev
1:7,
"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they
also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail
because of him. Even so, Amen."
But notice Jesus is coming with the clouds. This denotes
invisibility.The book of Revelation is very symbolic. So in what way
will every eye see him? The "eyes" then of the highly symbolic book of
Revelation cannot mean literal eyes, otherwise Jesus' statement at
John 14:19 would be false. And we both know that would not be
possible. Thus those 'eyes' are the eyes of understanding.
POOF! Obvious lack of Knowedge here, every eye will see him. And
then He rules with a rod of iron.
Then how do you explain John 14:19?
Post by TruthPost by JamesAlso the Greek word used there for Jesus return is parousia which
means PRESENCE, not 'coming' or 'return'. (more on this if you want)
Are you kidding? You already totally discounted everything the JW
has come up with. Your org is full of false prophets, teachers
and has no knowledge. It was all vaporized before your false
prophets generated their lies.
More opinions, less Scriptures. If you have some proof of your
statements, then present it. Otherwise you are just voicing an
opinion. I can do the same thing, your interpretation of some of the
Bible is wrong. You see it is just opinion, and doesn't help to prove
anything.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by James"missing in the 2nd-century church, the writers of those days speaking
of them as a thing in the past-in the apostolic age, in fact." (The
Illustrated Bible Dictionary, edited by J. D. Douglas, 1980, Vol. 1,
p. 79.)
You are listening to the wrong guide. According his knowledge is
false. Fact if the matter your leaders now are all suspect. They
operate without knowledge.
The above reference has nothing to do with JW's. It is just the
evidence he (J. D. Douglas) discovered when researching that topic.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthThey taught the Gospel which the JW's do not know. They
personally all witnessed the Gospel, no one in the JW's have,
ever.
Your OPINION is noted.
None of your people have been taught by Jesus.
Your OPINION is noted. So prove it.
All your leaders are false, they falsely prophesy, they have no
knowledge, they cannot reason with no knowledgellllllll
You are so wrong it is pathetic.
You admitted the truth that they erred in prophecy, buying homes,
setting dates, you admitted that you have no reason to have any
knowledge. 1 Cor 13:8. IOW's you are the one at the short end of
the stick.
Try giving me some errors of MODERN DAY. Yes, JW's committed SOME
errors way in the past, but Pr 4:18 shows that was going to happen,
and they would correct those errors and move on. Today they have most
of the doctrines down pat.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthYou cannot "reason" in your "temples" One time you will speak of
the sanctity of the bible another time it is something to modify.
You making it sound like they change things every day. Actually since
their beginning, they have had very few major changes of interpreting
Scripture.
They have tons of changes, plus tons of twisting words changing
defs and a host of other things wrong. But hey! Without knowledge
what can you expect?
Nonsense. There is only a few mistakes that the hate groups keep
tossing out there. But JW's are not surprised because all true
Christians will be persecuted. 2 Ti 3:12,
"And indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be
persecuted." (NASB)
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesAlso, take a closer look at Mt 24:14,
"And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the
whole world, so that all nations will hear it, and then, finally, the
end will come." (Living Bible)
Notice the theme of the preaching. Not just the gospels of the Bible,
or general Bible knowledge, but the KINGDOM message. This should look
familiar to you. Mt 6:10,
What is being taught there in 24:14 is the Gospel of the Kingdom.
It cannot be taught now since you do not know when it will come.
How many false prophets in the JW's have proclaimed a date for it
and the day came and went?
I don't know. Why don't you tell me. (and show the evidence for the
assertion)
How many houses in San Diego did the
Post by Truthpurchase for the men they said was coming back? Hmmm?
What are you talking about?
Beth Sarim (Hebrew ??? ???? "House of the Princes") is a
ten-bedroom mansion in San Diego, California, constructed in 1929
in anticipation of various resurrected Old Testament biblical
patriarchs or prophets such as Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah and
Samuel. It was maintained by the Watch Tower Society, the parent
organization used by Jehovah's Witnesses, and was also used as a
winter home and executive office for Watch Tower president Joseph
Franklin Rutherford
In 1918, Watch Tower publications began predicting, under the
direction of Rutherford, that Old Testament patriarchs or
"princes" would be resurrected back to earthly life in 1925. It
was taught that these "princes" would become earth's new leaders
and that their resurrection would be a prelude to the
inauguration of a new earthly society and the abolition of
death.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] (It had previously been taught that
these individuals were to be raised shortly after 1914.[8][9])
These "princes" would use Jerusalem as their capital, with some
of the "princes" being located in other "principal parts of the
earth."[10] Despite the failure of this prediction, Rutherford
continued to preach their imminent return.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Sarim
After Rutherford's death, the Watchtower Society maintained Beth
Sarim for a few years,[49] before selling the property in
1948.[50] The belief that the "princes" would be resurrected
before Armageddon was abandoned in 1950.[51][52][53][54] In 1954,
when asked at a trial in Scotland why the property was sold,
Watch Tower spokesman Frederick William Franz explained:[55]
Because it was there, and the prophets had not yet come back to
occupy it, to make use of it, and the Society had no use for it
at the time, it was in charge of a caretaker, and it was causing
expense, and our understanding of the Scriptures opened up more,
and more concerning the Princes, which will include those
prophets, and so the property was sold as serving no present
purpose.
Thanks for the details.
Why were you dishonest and demand proof?
First of all, I wasn't dishonest. To accuse me of that makes you the
one that is dishonest.
I demand proof because there are a lot of lies out there concerning
JW's.
Post by TruthJust about everyone knows of this and even more, yet you tried to
act as if it wasn't true.
Show me where I acted that way.
You were the one acting as if it weren't true, that is deceitful,
if I hadn't posted the truth you would have used that to your
advantage, as if it weren't real. Like you will probably deny the
secret book to the elders and the rest of the books.
As I mentioned above, show me the source of that accusation.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthIf it were that big of a surprise to
you then you would have had ample reason on your own to question
the cult that hide their false prophets from you. Even at that
early date they had a thing about false prophets, yet they
covered it all up with time extensions, recalcs and so on. And in
the end they were as bad or worse than the RCC that you came
from. Works will never get you to the kingdom.
JW's didn't come from RCC. If anything, they have their roots in
Presbyterians, if I recall correctly.
You came from the RCC, can't you read James? Really? Lack of
knowledge does not extend that far.
Prove to me that JW's came from RCC. You can't because it is not true.
Post by TruthPost by JamesAnd concerning works, since JW's must go by the Bible (2 Ti 3:16).
Thus we have Jas 2:17,
"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." (NASB)
Thus do you believe your 'dead faith' will save you? You need to think
about that.
You only have books and papers with repsonse quotes. How many
bibles do you personally own?
I own 7 Bibles printed on pages. I have access to a lot more Bibles
online. How many Bibles printed on pages do you have?
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by James"Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book “Salvation,” published in 1939,
explains: “The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’;
and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was
that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth
today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and
who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by
the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of
earth.”
A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors
of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? “The
Watchtower” of December 15, 1947, explained: “It had fully served its
purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to
keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King
Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in
California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s
Word of promise.”
[Footnote]
At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as
Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of
this system of things and would serve as “princes in all the earth,”
in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when
further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly
forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon.—See
“The Watchtower,” November 1, 1950, pages 414-17."
Yes, they had it partially wrong about the Princes that will be in the
earth, such as Abraham and Moses etc. These will be resurrected first,
when the general resurrection of the dead starts. (Acts 24:15), not
back in the 20's like they initially thought. There is no specific
date for them appearing in the modern age.
There is no justification for princes. There were homes purchased
for the disciples as well.
Like I said, the things in the past have been corrected. What is
important now is the present and future. Jesus said 'once saved,
always saved' is not a Bible doctrine. Mt 24:13,
"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (NASB)
Thus salvation is only obtained in the "end".
I have salvation now, and guaranteed to me. Read Ephesians 1st
chapter. But then, why? You cannot have knowledge per your
teachings.
What does Mt 24:13 mean then concerning salvation?
Some statements by the Apostle Paul:
1 Cor 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he
does not fall." (NASB)
If you are forever saved, any "fall" would not have a great impact on
your future eternal life, thus why "take heed" over it? But if a
"fall" could prevent a once 'saved' person from gaining eternal life,
then a Christian would want to really be careful not to "fall".
Php 2:12. "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not
only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work
out your salvation with fear and trembling," (NIV)
If once saved always saved was true, there would be no need to
"continue" to work out
salvation and have "fear and trembling". But one would have "fear and
trembling" if there was a possibility he could not receive salvation.
He 10:26,27, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have
received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that
will consume the enemies of God." (NIV)
Thus deliberately sinning will make one an 'enemy of God'. No "enemies
of God" in the Bible are ever promised 'salvation'.
He 3:14, "For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the
beginning of our assurance firm until the end," (NASB)
Notice we have to "hold fast" every day "until the end".
2 Cor 11:3, "But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the
serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your
sincere and pure devotion to Christ." (NIV)
Paul was writing this to fellow believers (those who believed in
Jesus) in Corinth. Paul would not have been worried about their
salvation being in jeopardy because of deception if they were 'always
saved' because they had already believed in Jesus.
He 6:4-6, "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened,
who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of
the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance,
because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over
again and subjecting him to public disgrace." (NIV)
Even though these people were 'saved' (they tasted the heavenly gift,
shared in the Holy Spirit, tasted the goodness of the word of God, and
tasted the powers of the coming age) it still will be "impossible" for
them to be "brought back to repentance" because of their bad conduct.
They will be 'lost' forever.
1 Cor 9:27, "No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I
have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the
prize." (NIV)
Paul shouldn't have to "beat" his body if he already has salvation
guaranteed. But if it is not guaranteed, he has to continually keep
his body a slave so that he will not be "disqualified" for the prize
of everlasting life.
Thus Paul knew that salvation was not guaranteed at the time of first
belief. They had to continue to obey and follow Jesus' teachings.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesBut since NO RELIGION is perfect today, all of them had things changed
from their start. JW's are fulfilling Pr 4:18,
Of course no religion is perfect, other than the one mentioned in
James, but admitting your imperfect organization over dinner and
saying But, but, but mommy they did it too! Only shows me that
you are willing to believe a lie. and in this case, a huge bunch
of lies. I don't say that lightly.
God says BE PERFECT. Jesus says, be ye perfect as your Father God
is Perfect. He allows no variation. Even though you do to excuse
away looking silly before all men.
Are you saying you are perfect? Well then, you just called the apostle
Paul a liar! Rom 3:23,
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (NIV)
Post by TruthPost by James"The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)
But the only righteousness you have is self righteousness.
Worthless before God the Father.
You are wrong again. How does it feel to be so wrong on a subject, all
the time?
You have no knowledge, so would I respect your opinion or
thinking? You said it applied to your org, yet you hang on. I
know I am correct in this matter. Sad, but true.
Your opinions are noted, as well as your lack of Scriptural support.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesThus the true religion will start off with some 'darkness', and
gradually correct things until they reach "full light of day".
Is your religion perfect and never made an error? And what religion is
that? (Sorry if you told me before, but my memory is not so good)
I am not nor have I been part of any man made religion.
Then you have got a problem. The apostle Paul talks about the
structure within the true church. You apparently have no church, then
you have a problem. *1 Ti 3:1-10,
I have no problem. That you cannot understand what a church is,
and what religion is, is your lack of knowledge problem. So why
keep pretending you know things when no one in the JW;s could per
1 Cor 13:8
??
Post by TruthPost by James"1. Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an
overseer, he desires a noble task.
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one
wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to
teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not
quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey
him with proper respect.
5. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he
take care of God's church?)
6. He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and
fall under the same judgment as the devil.
7. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he
will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
8. Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not
indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
9. They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear
conscience.
10. They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against
them, let them serve as deacons." (NIV)
Does your 'church' follow Paul's instructions here at 1 Tim 3:1-10?
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthJesus did
not start with darkness and then became Light. Jesus has been a
light unto all man, even before the foundations of the earth.
That proverbs statement at 4:18 does not include Jesus, because the
Bible already says that Jesus was sinless. (2 Cor 5:21; Heb 4:15; 1 Pe
1:18,19)
Then what does Pr 4:18 mean to you?
I have no sin imputed to my account. Why?
I guess because you say so. But you are contradicting Paul's inspired
statement at Ro 3:23,
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (NIV)
And as I said above, Ro 3:23 does not include Jesus, since the Bible
said Jesus had no sin.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthWhere is the temple spoken of in verse 15?
Verse 15 of what book and chapter?
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of
desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy
place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
You didn't understand it.
I never commented on it. How do you say I didn't understand it?
"6 What will signal the start of the great tribulation? Jesus
foretold: “When you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes
desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a
holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) then let those in Judea
begin fleeing to the mountains.” (Matt. 24:15, 16) In the first
fulfillment, the “standing in a holy place” occurred in 66 C.E. when
the Roman army (“the disgusting thing”) attacked Jerusalem and its
temple (a place holy in the eyes of the Jews). In the larger
fulfillment, the “standing” will occur when the United Nations (the
modern-day “disgusting thing”) attacks Christendom (which is holy in
the eyes of nominal Christians) and the rest of Babylon the Great. The
same attack is described at Revelation 17:16-18. That event will be
the beginning of the great tribulation.
Obviously you have been misled and you should study it for
yourself, the abomination happens around the middle of the trib.
How do you know?
Because of Study and the Holy Spirit leading me into all truth.
I can say the same thing, and mine would be true.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthRussia's attack with Iran, Libya and IIRC Ethiopia will be at the
beginning.
And what Scriptures support this?
I have alread seen what you do with scripture, you ignore it.
Pearls before swine applies here. If you had ears to hear I would
gladly share them.
Again no Scriptural details to answer my question. I can only assume
you don't really know the answer.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by James7 Jesus also foretold: “Those days will be cut short.” In the initial
fulfillment, this happened in 66 C.E. when the Roman army “cut short”
its attack. Then, anointed Christians in Jerusalem and Judea fled,
allowing for their ‘flesh, or life, to be saved.’ (Read Matthew 24:22;
Mal. 3:17) So, what can we expect will happen during the coming great
tribulation? Jehovah will “cut short” the attack of the United Nations
on false religion, not allowing true religion to be destroyed with the
false. This will ensure that God’s people will be saved.
8 What happens after the initial part of the great tribulation has
passed? Jesus’ words indicate that there will be a period of time that
will last until the start of Armageddon. What events will occur during
that interval? The answer is recorded at Ezekiel 38:14-16 and Matthew
24:29-31. (Read.) After that, we will witness Armageddon, the climax
of the great tribulation, which parallels Jerusalem’s destruction in
70 C.E. (Mal. 4:1) With the battle of Armageddon as its climax, that
coming great tribulation will be unique—an event “such as has not
occurred since the world’s beginning.” (Matt. 24:21) When it has
passed, Christ’s Millennial Rule will begin." (7/15 2013 Watchtower,
pp. 4,5)
Read the Bible, there is lots on this in the books of the
prophets and Revelation and spread out throughout the NT. Forget
the lying dogs at the watchtower.
Again, an error.
Nope, not here, but there.
Post by JamesSometimes we need help in understanding the more difficult Scriptures.
Take the example of the Ethiopian Eunuch. See Acts 8:27-39.
But if you are the only member of your 'church', then you won't be
able to apply Acts 8:27-39. That is probably why you don't have much
Scriptural knowledge to answer my questions.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesThus there is to be a double fulfillment of Mt 24:15. One has already
happened, and the other one is yet to occur.
Post by TruthPost by JamesAs prophesied by
Post by TruthDaniel? Why is everyone fleeing for their life in chapter 24?
See above where Mt 24:15 has a dual prophecy.
You
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by Trutharen't preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom and never have.
Again, you need to tell me the book and chapter.
Same book, same chapter. Evidently you don't use your bible when
posting, eh?
Wrong again. I don't know how you can get anywhere when you are in
error so much.
This good news of the Kingdom (Mt 24:14) is the same one spoken about
in the Lord's Prayer at Mt 6:10 and Daniel 2:44. Mt 6:10,
"your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
(NIV)
So the Kingdom obviously has something to do with something coming,
and God's will coming to the earth like it is in Heaven. Da 2:44,
"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom
that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people.
It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will
itself endure forever." (NIV)
What then is the "Kingdom" Jesus is talking about at Mt 24:14? It is
governments. And what does it say? The real good news is that God's
government will come and "destroy" all of man's pathetic governments.
THAT IS THE KINGDOM MESSAGE being taught today globally in 239 lands.
No one else that I ever seen is preaching about that globally. No one.
Also the Bible nowhere talks about a false "Kingdom" being preached,
so there is only one group of Jesus' true followers preaching that
kingdom message. They are fulfilling Mt 24:14 as we speak. I am
surprised you don't understand that, since the Scriptures cited are
not that complicated. You need to reassess your version of the kingdom
message, to be more in tune with the Bible's message.
The kingdom at hand is in the heart of every believer, as we are
the Kingdom, it is also a national place for the Jew with full
land ownership of all the land markings promised to Abraham.
Paul talks about spiritual Jews. He is not prophecing about the
natural Jews. Their house was abandoned to them by Jesus and God long
ago. Mt 23:37,38,
"37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone
those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children
together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were
not willing.
38. Look, your house is left to you desolate." (NIV)
Too bad you don't know scripture, nor understand God. God will
fulfill his prophecy to the Jews because He is God.. He will
because of Himself, and being true to His word.
Didn't you read a word of Mt 23:37,38? The natural Jews abandoned
Jesus, so Jesus and God abandoned them. Paul nowhere says that God is
going to restore the natural Jews. Again, what don't you understand
about Rom 2:28,29,
"28. A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is
circumcision merely outward and physical.
29. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is
circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God." (NIV)
Paul is speaking of the symbolic or spiritual Jew.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthThe reason I am not going to go deep into this with you is that
it is going to happen whether you like it or not. It is under
Gods appointed time. What is important is the Gospel message and
mans reception of it. You eternal destiny is solely dependent on
whether or not you accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour and have been
washed in the blood for the forgiveness of your sins.
That happens when we are baptized. Yes all JW's have accepted Jesus as
their savior, along with God as their savior.
You will not accept that Jesus, born of Mary is God, so you will
all be denied before the father. Baptism does not fill the bill,
only faith does.
Correct, I have shown you above where Jesus was "God's Son", not God.
Baptism is the request made to God for a good conscience. And James
said that faith without works, it a 'dead faith'. Jas 2:17,
"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." (NASB)
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthYou could be the smartest theologian in the world and without
Jesus as Saviour and soon coming king you life is not worth a
pile of dung.
See above where all JW's accept Jesus ransom sacrifice.
Show God where you accept and believe that Jesus Christ is God?
Divine? You play on words a lot.
As I have shown you above, neither Jesus nor I say that Jesus was God.
If you want me to go up there and copy and paste them down here, I
will.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthThe best you can do is parrot, without understanding, the
teachings of the JW never going off on your own to read the
Bible, and never coming to the truth since the author of the
bible you turn a deaf ear to.
How many different Bibles do you see me quoting from? Not one of them
was the NWT. I try to use a Bible that the person is comfortable with.
Even though the NWT is the most accurate of the translations.
You use the translations the JW's give you that fit the word
format closest to what you teach. You just lied, again.
What lie? Show me.
Post by TruthYou do not know my favored translation and use them all,
including the ones I would never use.
The NIV, NASB, and the KJV are very popular out there, and I use them
a lot. (read my other postings) I also like the DNKJB (Divine Name
King James Bible) since they restored the Divine name in both the OT
and NT.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthAs to Matt 6:10 It is part of the teaching of God to the Jews on
the correct format for prayer. Do you pray the prayer that Jesus
taught?
JW's follow ALL the Bible. For example, as mentioned above you must
Mt 24:14,
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world
as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come." (NAB)
Notice it says "and then the end will come.". Thus this is preaching
just prior to the end. What is the theme of this preaching? A KINGDOM
message. The same kingdom message that Jesus taught at Mt 6:10.
Now who will be doing this preaching? Logically, it would be Jesus'
true servants. And to what extent are they preaching the kingdom
message? Not just in a local place, but "throughout the world". And
why is the gospel of the kingdom being preached throughout the whole
world? As a witness to all the nations.
Who have been the only ones doing this for the past many years?
Jehovah's Witnesses. No one else has come close to fulfilling Mt
24:14.
You can't deny they are preaching a world-wide kingdom message. It is
easily proven.
Yes I can, because until the church is gone, resurrected the time
of Jacobs troubles will not start. At the end of those days, and
they are numbered, will the "end" come and Jesus will take
control and rule with a rod of Iron for 1000 years and then the
true end of this world will finally come and then the judgment.
So nothing in your timing pattern fits with scripture.
God demands perfect people. How do you qualify?
The Bible says that ALL men sin. Thus there are no perfect people on
earth at this time. Neither your religion nor mine or anyone's.
I have no religion other than in James 5, but I am perfect before
God the Father, and so is every born again believer in Jesus
Christ. Jesus, made it possible, that is why the least amongst us
is greater than the greatest profit before the time of Jesus.
There is no sin imputed to me. Plus I am not under the Mosaic
Law. And that is all scriptural. My eternal life with Jesus began
when I was born Again. I have been signed, sealed and delivered
to him.
But you are forgetting Jesus' words at Mt 24:13,
"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (NASB)
Thus there is no 'once saved, always saved' doctrine.
Again, that is a lie, see above.
Then what do Jesus' words at Mt 24:13 mean?
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthPost by JamesAnd respectfully you are way off the mark. But I am not surprised
since Christendom's clergy has a lot of things messed up, such as an
'immortal soul', and the sadist-strewn 'hellfire', and the
post-Biblical Trinity doctrine, the belief that the resurrected bad
people will be judged on what they did in their past life right then
which is in defiance of Rom 6:7,23, the belief in Purgatory and Limbo,
etc, etc. I think the clergy have been nipping too much wine at
communion. (which by the way is suppose to be held once a year, not
daily or weekly)
Communion is as oft as your drink this cup.
1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I
delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said,
Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in
remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he
this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink
this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and
blood of the Lord.
Anyone who drinks it unworthily is guilty of His death. Do you
take communion?
No. Most JW's are of the "great crowd" that will live forever on a
paradise earth. The covenant was with the 144,000. (those that will
live in Heaven) They are the ones who 'take communion'.
They are the only spiritual ones, which is why your words are
meaningless. Per the JW. But I showed you that communion is taken
anytime. You had no comment.
Now who is lying. My comment was that communion Scripturally occurs
once per year, just as that Passover day was, when he broke bread and
drank the wine.
Post by TruthPost by JamesPost by TruthDo you Believe Jesus IS God?
The Bible doesn't teach that, so the answer is no. Here are some
reasons why.
Now some scriptures showing that Jesus and God are two distinct
individuals and cannot be the
same person are: De 6:4; Pr 8:22-24; Mt 3:17; Mt 20:23; Mt 26:39; Mt
27:46; Mark 13:32; Luke
1:31,32,35; Luke 22:42; John 5:19; John 6:38; John 6:57; John 7:16;
John 7:29; John 8:17,18; John
10:36; John 13:16; John 14:28; John 17:3; John 17:5; John 20:17; John
20:31; Acts 2:24; Acts 3:15;
Acts 7:55; Acts17:23,24,31; 1 Cor 3:23; I Cor 8:5,6; 1 Cor 11:3; 1
Cor 15:24,27,28; 2 Cor 1:3; Ga
3:20; Eph 4:6; Col 1:15; He 5:7; 1 Pe 1:3; Re 3:14; Re 3:2,12.
Jesus repeatedly referred to the Father as "my God"-even after his
return to heavenly glory.
(Matthew 27:46; John 20:17; Revelation 3:2, 12) Only an inferior, a
worshiper, can refer to another
as "my God." But why is it that not once do we find the Father
addressing the Son as "my God"?
And why is it that we never see the Father or the Son addressing the
"Holy Ghost" as "my God"?
Thought-provoking questions, would you not agree?
Not at all. God is three personages Yet all are "One" Just like I
am "one" with Jesus Christ. It is an offense to me to call any
part of the Godhead inferior. That you would feel free to sit in
Judgement of God is an act of total ignorance to say the least
and to place your personal knowledge above that of God is
offensive to Him.
According to your OPINION. And your logic is off. You are saying that
3 in one is the same way you are one with Christ. You are interpreting
the post-Biblical Trinity as literally3 persons in one person. Then by
the same Scriptural logic, you should be 2 persons in one. And I am
sure you are not saying that. All right, then explain this. Joh
17:21,22,
"21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in
thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that
thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given
them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (KJV)
By your logic, that would mean that God is not a Trinity, but a
Multitude, since Jesus disciples are also at "one" with the Father and
Jesus. You need some guidance as you study the Scriptures. You have
some of it right, but a lot of it wrong. If you pray to God for
assistance, He will give it to you.
Did you look up any of those many Bible Scriptures presented above to
show you that Jesus could not be God?
Post by TruthYou also did a dump of info that shows me that you are not
speaking to me, but some faceless generic blob out there who
could be numerous things that I have told you that I am not. Like
being a trinitarian. That shows total lack of respect for other
people and is the reason why you dismiss anything said to you
because you consider yourself to be superior.
Wrong again. You don't know me good enough to judge me that way.
Post by TruthWorks will not gain you access to heaven, nor to the kingdom of
heaven If you should die in your sin you will hate God even more
since you will know that He was correct all along and you
weren't.
I am afraid for you, it won't happen that way. If God was merciful
enough to give me eternal life, I will be part of the "other sheep",
also called the "Great Crowd", also Jesus called the "meek" ones who
will inherit the earth. I have no desire to go to Heaven other than it
would be for curiosity. I enjoy the earth too much: a beautiful
sunset, my favorite meal, being with my mate, etc.
Post by TruthPost by JamesJoh 6:46, "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God;
only he has seen the Father." (NIV)
Jesus also said at Re 3:14 that he was the beginning of God's
creations. Re 3:14,
"And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, `These things
says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the
creation of God:'" (NKJV)
Jehovah's Witnesses believe what the Bible says concerning God. The
word "Trinity" is not found in the holy scriptures. Neither is the
concept of the doctrine. The Bible tells us that God is "one". Notice
the statement by one encyclopedia, The New Encyclopædia Britannica,
"Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears
in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to
contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord
our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed
gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . .
By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took
substantially the form it has maintained ever since." (1976,
Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.)
That reference to the "4th century" is talking about the time when the
Trinity doctrine first came into existence near the form we see it
today. At the beginning of the 4th century, bitter debates about the
nature of God was going on between theologians, especially three of
them; Arius, Alexander, and Athanasius from Alexandria, Egypt.
Post by TruthHave you accepted
Jesus Christ as savior by Faith? If not you were just warned.
Baptism by water is a work of man.
Oh, then why did Jesus say to be baptized? Mt 28:19,20,
It is an outward sign of an inward happening before all men.
Sorry, you didn't give me enough details to understand your statement.
All I am trying to tell you is that the person who you claim to be at
"one" with, told his followers to BAPTIZE people of all the nations.
Post by TruthPost by James"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and
teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am
with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)
James
If your spirit is not reborn then you are not born again.
Those who are born again belong to the 144,000 Heavenly class. They
are given spirit bodies, since flesh and blood cannot live in Heaven.
Only those in spirit bodies. 1 Co 15:50,
"I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
(NIV)
Post by TruthDo the JW's Baptize as above verse.
Yes they do baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy
Spirit. However the Christian Church does not recognise the
baptism that Jehovah's Witnesses give. The simple reason for this
is their teaching on just who Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit
are. In the quote above (as well as many others throughout the
Old and New testaments) Christians believe that Jesus was
referring to his position in the Trinitarian Godhead and that we
are to baptise in the name of God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Jehovah's Witnesses reject this, and regard Jesus Christ as
'god-like' rather than Emmanuel - God in human form, and regard
the Holy Spirit as 'part of Jehovah' rather than that sent by
Jesus. Therefore because of the unorthodox teachings and beliefs
of this group, any baptism in the name of Jehovah, and a
'demigod' Jesus, and the inanimate 'spirit' of which the JWs
teach is regarded as false doctrine by the Christian Church and
therefore not accepted as true baptism as instituted by Our Lord
himself.
Why, I don't know if I can sleep now, knowing that the many
'Christian' religions don't approve of the JW baptism. Do you baptize
with full immersion? (complete dunking) Do you not baptize infants?
Although there is 5 different kinds of baptisms mentioned in the
Bible, you are obviously referring to water baptism.
For example Mr 1:9,10,
"At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by
John in the Jordan.
10. As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being
torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove." (NIV)
Notice right after Jesus was baptized he was coming "up out of the
water". There was no sprinkling here.
And Joh 3:23 and Ac 8:38,
"Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was
plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be baptized."
(NIV)
"And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the
eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him." (NIV)
Thus baptismal sprinkling of water finds no basis in the Holy
Scriptures, as well as infant baptism. Infant baptism is not a Bible
teaching.
In the Bible, there is no mention of any baby being baptized in the
first century. Thus infant baptism is a practice that started outside
of the Bible, and AFTER the first century. This was at a time when
false teachers were around. (see 2 Pe 2:1-3)
And there is a very good reason why infants were not baptized. Notice
Jesus' command concerning baptism and think of this applying to a
baby. Mt 28:19,20,
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and
teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am
with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)
Notice the words "teaching them to obey everything I have commanded
you.". Thus the person being baptized was aware what he was doing, and
believed in Jesus and his teachings. Babies cannot do that.
Again notice who was baptized at Ac 8:12,
"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the
kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both
men and women." (NIV)
Observe here "both men and women" were baptized. These were people who
"believed Philip" concerning what he was preaching. If babies or small
children were present, they could not have "believed" and took to
heart what Philip was preaching, so that is why they would not have
been baptized.
Thus in the Bible (which is God's inspired word; 2 Ti 3:16), the
emphasis is on first believing and understanding what was preached,
and THEN getting baptized, thus infant baptism is not a teaching of
scripture, but a tradition of men. (see also Jesus' words at Mark 7:9)
Post by TruthThey say yes, but discount Jesus as God, Emmanuel. Whoever does
that Christ will reject before His Father.
No way, since Jesus is inferior to God. Here is more proof. Jesus was
resurrected and went back to Heaven to be with his Father again. One
would expect Jesus to be equal to God while in Heaven, if he was part
of that post-Biblical Trinity doctrine. Here is what Jesus' handpicked
apostle said at 1 Co 11:3,
"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)
"But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a
husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ." (NAB)
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and
the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
(KJV)
Choose your favorite Bible here, or look it up in another one. Most
should read about the same way.
Post by TruthSo, All who would believe the lies of the JW's will end up in the
Lake of Fire and brimstone, tortured there forever. Especially if
they lead other in the same path.
Yet the Bible says the dead feel nothing. Ec 9:5,
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is
forgotten." (NIV)
Ps 146:3,4,
"3 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no
salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very
day his thoughts perish." (NASB)
Post by TruthJehovah Redeemer is, Jesus Christ.
You are missing some punctuation. It should read:
'Jehovah's Redeemer is, Jesus Christ.'
Post by TruthJehovah Creator is Jesus Christ.
Close, but not quite accurate. Jesus himself was created by Jehovah.
Col 1:15,
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."
(NASB)
All things (except Jesus) were created THROUGH Jesus. Thus God did the
creating, but Jesus assisted Him in some way. Col 1:16,
"For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or
authorities -- all things have been created through Him and for Him."
(NASB)
Post by TruthPer James.1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be
prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall
cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
So He or the JW org admit they have no spiritual or Godly
knowledge,
You are misinterpreting what that Bible "knowledge" was in the 1st
century. As shown above it was miraculous knowledge, such as Jesus
knowing that Lazarus was dead, before he ever got there. Such
miraculous knowledge is no longer around today, by you or any church
or anyone.
Post by Truththat all the false prophecy in their group is for a
reason, since the gift of prophecy is "done away".
They were not prophesying. They were reasoning on the Scriptures.
(Acts 17:2.3) The prophesying and raising of dead persons, all ended
when the apostles and close disciples of Jesus all died off.
Whew, this is getting long.
James
www.jw.org